Private Junior school which feeds a specific Senior or one which doesn't?

[ChocolateWombat]

Hello. I have posted elsewhere about 2 specific Prep schools, but realised that much of my question relates to whether it is best to choose a Prep which feeds a specific Private Senior school (possibly part of that Senior school, but not necessarily) or to go for a Prep that feeds many different Seniors?
Just wondered if anyone has views on which of the above is best or what the pros and cons of each type are?

Many thanks for your help.

Pros:
Some mean automatic entry to that senior school, which is great is it is otherwise highly selective and hard to get into generally. Takes the 11+ pressure away.
All-through education works really well for some children through providing continuity of atmosphere, expectations etc.
Some schools 'recommend the school is not right for your child' just before secondary entry if they aren't performing academically enough. But on the other hand, I'd rather the school was honest if it wasn't right for my DC than keeping them for numbers/money knowing it was bad for the child.
You don't HAVE to stay, it is optional at the end of the day so you aren't in reality restricted in choice if your DC needs a change of atmosphere
Often the senior school is still a 'fresh start' with new teachers, pupils and buildings

Cons:
Some children need a change. Especially children who are very shy or labelled with behaviour problems or whatever else. It can do (some) children wonders to have a completely clean break and be able to escape pre-conceived ideas of how they should behave or perform.
You don't know what your DC will be like aged 11 and whether that particular senior school is right for them. Other preps might prepare for a wider range of seniors. The one with a linked senior is likely to not prepare for 11+ or only prepare for the linked senior's test.
Child may get bored of the school by sixth form age (but lots more around at 16 anyway)
Same social group, no escape from unhealthy friendships or bullying. (This is assuming no other children are added at 11 which is rare)

I've seen both- DD was at a 4-18 school. Very selective girls school.
DS went to a boys' prep and then the 'top choice' boys selective senior school, which despite his prep being linked to it, only about 50% go on and some at 11 and some at 13.
There were advantages and disadvantages of both. We just chose the best school for our DC at 4, but with consideration in mind of where we wanted them to be for secondary assuming they suited that school.
The big thing to consider is how separate is the prep and senior department, is is different buildings and teachers? And how many other children join the school at 11 (the more the better in terms of opportunity for a change of friendships). And remember you can always opt to leave they don't tie you in forever! Equally simply consider which school as a prep school (forget the senior part) would be best for your DC?
Good luck!

I think the thing to remember is that things can change. DD went at 7 to a junior school which fed the senior school and at that time was really glad she didn't have to change schools again. She went up to the seniors, but by the end of Y7 was not very happy. She sat a 13+ exam to go to another school and hasn't looked back since.

Thanks. Really helpful things for us to consider. In particular, I hadn't thought about the issue of if there is a feeder junior school, how many new ones from outside join them. If there are plenty, it gives a new experience to everyone.
I also like the point that it is good to consider the Prep for its own benefits, not just in terms of getting to the next stage. Assuming both types can take you to the next stage, then perhaps this is the most important issue.

If anyone else has any thoughts or experiences, I would love to hear them. Thanks!

Also consider how important the social side is to you as a parent. tbh I found 7 years with same cohort of parents quite tricky and political, likewise dd with some of her year group, even though they changed classes around at least every other year and some came and went. The senior school dc went to transfers about half the year 7 intake from the junior school at 11 so there is a good mix of parents who already know each other and those who don't and social opportunities set up to get to know each other. At 13+ less than half as many again join. By that stage parents tend not to meet as often or be involved in the dc social life apart from as a taxi service unless you meet on the touchlines etc

I think I might be leaning towards the non feeder idea at the moment, although its difficult to say why. Perhaps ultimately I just have a 'feeling' about the 2 schools. If we are not 100% sure about senior destination, perhaps it keeps our options open more, because it seems feeder preps don't prepare for other types of entrance exam and it might make you the odd one out if you are not moving onto the senior section. I guess that senior section is still an option from the non feeder prep.
Hmm....still not sure.
Thanks for the advice.

it seems feeder preps don't prepare for other types of entrance exam and it might make you the odd one out if you are not moving onto the senior section not sure about that . I know of several in dd's year at a different senior who came from the feeder school you are considering, as many if not more than the non-feeder prep option at 11+! The scholarships seem to have mainly gone to those at the junior and other preps which only go to 11 ie. those which prepare all for 11+ tests.

Thankyou LIZS. That is very interesting, esp the scholarship figures.
I wonder how scholarships are decided for those in a feeder junior, which is part of the senior, if they don't have to take an entrance exam. How would the school compare those coming in automatically to those taking the exam? I always wondered if schools prefer to give scholarships to those from outside to encourage them in, whilst those in the junior section might be considered more certain. Seems I am wrong.

Dd went to an independent prep (primary really) school. Very small, very friendly - like a big family.

She has now started in a local independent school which has a junior and a senior section. She is in y7 so first year of secondary. There has been no issue at all with settling in, making friends, etc. even despite it being a much bigger school.

Dd's primary made sure the girls were all prepared and ready for the entrance exam. They had good links to the school she has gone to and they had visited in the last etc. Although school didn't have access to past or sample papers they were very well prepared.

The school she is now at do have automatic entry for any girl in their junior section though they do also all sit the entrance exam - partly in order to determine scholarship places. However, the is no differention between those from the joined junior school and those from elsewhere now. The senior section is larger than the junior section so they have a lot of y7 joiners.

A dd's school almost all the girls in the attached juniors section do go on into the senior section of the school. It would be quite unusual there for them not to do so. Then it would most likely to go to a state secondary rather than an alternative independent secondary - though there is a coed non selective independent they could technically chose. However that doesn't generally occur Ime, though does the other way round: several girls have moved from the coed school into dd's new school.

Thanks Hulaby. Glad things are working out for your daughter.

Guess I like the idea of keeping options open a bit. Being in the Junior feeder seems to commit you to the Senior section, although I realise it doesn't in reality. I think you'd have to have a pretty strong reason to go elsewhere though and may just get swept along into it.
Everywhere seems to have different approaches. Getting automatic entry from the Junior to Senior, but still taking the exam is interesting. I wonder if sometimes people perform poorly and the Senior are concerned about what they are getting. Seems fairer for scholarship purposes though.
I think I will speak with both schools I'm interested in more, especially focusing on how far the feeder junior prepares for other entrance exams, and with the non feeder, which has leavers at 11 but goes to 13, how much prep they do for 11+. I'm sure they hope people will stay on to 13, but it seems about a third go at 11, which is probably what we would be interested in(but nice to keep options open) I had assumed they prepare for 11+ but in light of what LIZS says, will check that, as very important.
Thanks.

Definitely ask them but ime be prepared for a stock "of course" answer . Might be worth asking how many 11+ awards they achieve, especially compared to 13+, and whether those that do have any external coaching . I've had dc leave at both points and would say they are orientated more towards 13+, but as you say about a 1/3 leave earlier - most to selective independents, some to local state schools which intake at 11. Those who moved up from the junior school of the senior where dc are now were apparently given an advance indication that they would get a place (or should perhaps look elsewhere) but sit the same exam to award academic scholarships across the cohort.

Good ideas LIZS. Hearing from you guys on here is giving me lots of very specific things to ask, which I wouldn't have thought of otherwise. I wonder if any school truly knows or will tell you how many have outside coaching. On this topic, do you think it is widespread for 11 or 13 or necessary? People are already paying for what they assume gives them a better chance into selective schools. If tutoring is still needed (and I guess it may not be necessary but the product of paranoia) then just from an academic viewpoint, one wonders whether it is worth going to state school and paying for tutoring there. Realise this is a whole different topic to the one I raised, but interesting.

Think it is more generally common at 11+ and more to plug the gaps at 13+. Ostensibly dc prep would have denied outside coaching but I was quite surprised to be party to a casual if frank discussion about a 13+ boy between head and parent , so they do know it happens and may even suggest it in some cases. I also know of younger children who had coaching from staff outside school hours too. Good luck however you decide :)