Writing Skills/Handwriting Style ??? & Poetry Writing - & SATs ???

[RockinHippy]

I could really do with some advice on the following as yet again I have a very upset DD & not quite sure what to make of it. I know I need to speak with her teacher as its affecting her health, but wondered if there is some reasoning behind his attitude related to the upcoming SATs

I'll try & explain well, but please excuse me if I'm not 100% clear - pretty ill right now.

SOOooo...

Poetry Writing...

I know the literacy SATs is mostly taken from course work - but is there a set format that's expected to achieve a good SATs grade ?

I ask as I'm not understanding nor if I'm honest liking that when writing poetry in class DDs teacher seems to be expecting her to run every line past him for approval & then telling her what she can & can't write- for example - on showing him a line she was really pleased with, he told her off, telling her quite aggressively ( which I know he can be) "NO, you cant write that, change it "its too dramatic" -

DD was really upset by this as she loves writing poetry, is a creative thinker & very good at it, was really pleased with her work & in her words "felt shot down in flames" & didn't understand why a poem could be too dramatic - She asked me why & I really couldn't answer her - so hoping someone here can ??? & is it to fall in with what's expected for SATs??

Handwriting...

DD is really struggling with this due to pain in her hands, so I'm pretty peed off about this one, but before I go in guns blazing, which I feel like doing after seeing how ill its made DD tonight & also as the teacher is well aware of DDs problems, or should be by now.

Are they marked on their handwriting - can they be penalised for a more flourished style - he told her off repeatedly for using loops on Ys Gs etc, something DD says she was taught by her teachers in previous years.

More upsettingly he told her off because the quality of her handwriting deteriorated the more she wrote - because her hands were hurting her - when she tried to say this, he just kept repeating - Its not about your hands hurting, I'm talking about your writing its not good enough - DD struggles with writing a lot & REALLY struggles with joined up writing as it puts more pressure on her hand muscles & causes more pain, she says he wouldn't listen to this at all & got really cross with her.

Do they really still have to do joined up writing ??

Will she be marked down if her writing isn't consistently neat ???
This is impossible for her with long prices of writing

& to a style that's not her own, but one approved of by this teacher
Again something she struggles with due to pain - she's also very creative which shows in her writing style & she believes shes getting told off everyday for it :(

DD is very bright, loves school work, or did, this school year is rapidly turning her off learning, which is a worry in itself, but she's is still trying hard & achieving well & not much higher she can go with it - I could understand it more if she was struggling with the actual work

If I'm honest, I am so fed up with the whole pressure to before based on upcoming SATs, test after test after test & I know its for the School, not DD, I have checked with HS - though no doubt the teacher us under pressure from above too & probably why he is so grumpy

Is there something I am missing ??

Any insight appreciated please

TIA

My dc are younger and all struggle with handwriting. Ds has hypermobile finger and thumb joints so dreading this sort of thing too. Could you ask the school to provide a scribe for her for the exams - might take some of the pressure off the teacher and hence her.

She is diagnosed with EDS Hypermobility type too - & if the response I've had so far is anything to go by it will be a no

Still trying to get them to do a writing assessment - so far they reckon she will pass it easily, so no point, but Ive spoken to AMAZE & now insisting & on how its done too - which is at the end of the day, after a long stretch of writing, so its accurate.

Though this will only get her extra time in actual exams, no scribe :(

I would advise you get the ball rolling for your own DS sooner as Ive found it all takes a very long time & if you are worried now, you might just have it all in place by the time he really needs it

Re the handwriting - there are 3 marks available for evenly joined writing. Just 3. She won't be marked 'down' for not being neat, but she'll get 1 mark instead.

Full details are on the SATS marking schemes - one example here (p41ish) www.markschemes.co.uk/KS2_ENGLISH_MARKSCHEMES_2009.pdf

I'm guessing that you've tried all sorts of different pen grips and styles to see if anything helps her? Could she type in class for routine work to give her hands a break? Many schools have Neo2 portable wordprocessors which are superb for those who struggle with the physical side of writing.

Ds is only 4 and still in the school nursery. So far the school has been great - the SENCO has sourced some putty and exercises which he does in nursery. Whether it will change when he is further up the school I don't know. I imagine he will need some help as he can't hold a pencil for long before having to swap hands which his teacher said might indicate he is tiring quickly. Going to see GP on Friday to see if it is something she believes in referring for, though as she failed to act quickly on his inguinal hernia I am not holding my breath.

Is it worth getting a private assessment? If she is likely to pass easily and it is worth so little it makes the teacher's behaviour even worse.

That mark scheme is way out of date, You'llneedatray. Writing is now teacher assessed over time in Y6. Teachers would need to award a level which is a best fit over many pieces of work, and it's unlikely that her level would drop because of writing that gets more untidy.

The school should have an agreed joined style which they teach - there shouldn't be any of this last year loops, this year no loops thing. And most teachers would avoid levelling poetry as an assessment, as you say it's a very personal/creative thing.

I would go in and have a chat. The teacher obviously needs reminding of the difficulties your dd has and there is no need to put such pressure on regarding her handwriting. If necessary, involve the SENCO. Ask why there is no agreed policy on teaching joined handwriting, no wonder kids are confused.

I would be concerned about the impact the teacher's comments are having on your dd. I wouldn't be concerned about a marking structure of an exam that has no impact on your dd's future. Is her writing legible, that's what matters, 3 points on a Sats paper does not. I may be unusual on MN but I have explained to my dcs what Sats are and what they are for and that they have impact for the school only. The important thing is to work hard at school and produce work they are proud of....playing the exam game can come later.

There isn't an exam.

With the handwriting, Feenie is right- there should be an agreed style, so she should not be penalised for something she has previously been taught. They should also take her physical difficulties into account. I would ask the school whether there is a handwriting policy, and flag up the inconsistencies- to the HT if the teacher is not llistening.

With the poetry, I do wonder if you're not getting quite the full story. The objective is usually quite specific- not just 'write a poem' but 'write a poem which creates x atmosphere' or 'in the style of y poet' etc. The teacher should be providing specific guidance about what he is looking for, so it should be clear to both pupil and teacher whether they have achieved the criteria. Imagination and creativity is very much valued, but children do have to work within the particular task.

So I'm wondering whether your DD may have a tendency to jump straight in to writing, full of creative ideas, but perhaps not always thinking clearly about the task. (Pure speculation of course!)

Even if that's the case though, the teacher should still be responding appropriately- with guidance and constructive criticism.

Exam or no exam does it matter? The Sats result is still for the school not the pupil. As long as writing is legible that is what matters - who concerns themselves with this after year 6? Is it now part of the new GCSE?

Your poor Dd, and she is working so very hard to produce that work too. Do go in have a chat with the SENCO and give the CT a punch nudge.

My Ds has always struggled with his handwriting and after 3 years of being punished, threatened, and told he is just lazy it has now come to light that he is hypermobile in all joints (and so am I [shocked]). We have repeatedly told various CT's that he is struggling with his handwriting and every time we have SATS have always been brought up. At one point typing was suggested and a scribe but CT's and HT always said no....handwriting is a very important part of SATS. So in a previous TAC meeting with a LEA advisor I asked how many marks DS would lose if he had a scribe or typed and she said a VERY VERY small amount, which wouldn't even be noticed . I could of throttled the HT there and then, they had made my boy so poorly

The advisor is wrong. Your ds won't lose any marks in any SAT for handwriting, because there isn't one - it is teacher assessed.

Feenie I know! I was just trying to quickly find an example to show how it's worth s*d all and there is no prescribed style.

Has she been referred to the ot?

Thank you everyone - big help :) I suspected that might be the case as far as how important it was for marking & also knew that its all for the schools benefit, though DD is a perfectionist, so unfortunately even knowing that SATs aren't as important as she's told, isn't helping her feel less anxious :( - I even rang the high school to be told the do not use SATs for streaming - but DD just wants to please what seems to be unpleasable teachers ATM & its a worry as its changing her attitude to subjects she loved :(

3bunnies DDs school have also been fantastic - up until year 6 - the pressure on the DCs is beyond a joke & I suspect the teachers are feeling it too & its affecting their attitude in class - so I would highly recommend pushing for a referral to a recommended understanding Rheumy so that everything is properly in place if yr 6 gets too much for him, we got a late diagnosis & even though on the surface the school have been great, I'm rapidly realising the reality now we need it, isn't so good at all

This particular teacher has even taught DD before & always raves at parents evening about how clever & motivated she is - though we didn't have the diagnosis back then & hormones kicking in also means DDs problems are getting progressively worse - she loved him to bits before, cried when she left his class last time round - this time she says he's grumpy & doesn't listen a lot of the time & can quite aggressive if you try & speak & disagree with him - he bit my head off one morning for trying to say one sentence to him - passing on info he really needed to know too - I don't scare easily, but he made me jump as it was so unexpected - so I don't doubt DD is right :( - he also has no excuse for not understanding her health problems as we have a CAF in place & Ive made sure they were all fully aware, which he instead he was.

That said, he is generally a good teacher & cares, but apart from changes in his personal circumstances, which DD tells me makes him tired & extra grumpy, it seems the crazy pressure to perform this year, the schools results were down last year as they didn't push the kids in year 6, so pushing too much this year with at least daily testing, often several a day -

Though the other teacher is FAR worse, new to the school & her dreadful tactics are rapidly putting DD off a subject she previously loved & excelled at, which even putting her health problems aside is a worry. Is it really okay for a teacher to stand her own younger DD at the front of a class about to take yet another test & announce that her DD got a 100% in the same test so no excuses for getting less

Since writing this & reading some of your replies - I have got tougher with the school - so much talked about in the CAF meetings that's not happened, bad info given to me, or not given to me at all bar the potential for getting DD a place in our first choice school, its been a complete waste of time, it was better without it as I knew I had to push for things myself, not be told I didn't have too as they would take over & nothing happens, which has been the case

I put through a strongly worded email as regards the writing assessment & the new SENCO copying in Head, School Nurses, Governor etc , she phoned immediately & has been a huge help (I hope) - I don't need the assessment at all, she thinks what we have in the CAF is probably enough to cover her own paperwork, but suggested a GP letter might help just incase - GP has agreed to this. SENCO speaking to the teachers, organising help for DD according to what DD thinks is best for her - word processor for some work, not having to join writing or keep it consistently neat etc etc. She was surprised we hadn't spoken sooner - so am I, but no one suggested it, the CAF/TAC was meant to deal with it all, or so I thought :(

& yes, she has seen an OT - was assessed as needing special pens, which I had already bought myself before OT - writing slope & special cushion, cushion I had to fight for with the original SENCO - who figured "lets wait & see how she gets on with the writing slope, she might not need the cushion" completely missing the point that the 2 work together & over riding the OTs opinion I had to get really stroppy in the end & got it & its helped DDs back pain a lot. DD was also meant to get a special made to measure cloth exoskeleton glove for writing, but that came from the OT & apparently supply problems mean it never happened.

I did speak to AMAZE too & from them I learned that the OT should have also assessed DD with a keyboard too - which didn't happen, something AMAZE said they frequently hear as regards brighter DCs, as they do well enough, but would do better still if assessed properly & that they too often work to a target score, rather than really assessing the DCs in a way that allows them to achieve their full capabilities, so the brightest ones often lose out with OT too :(

I asked DD a bit more about the poem - turns out that it was topic work & IMHO a very dramatic topic too so no poetic style to keep to at all, seems more & more like a teacher having a bad day & being a bit of an arse :(

I hope I've answered everything, apologies no individual replies, & this update being a nit disjointed, I'm still ill & struggling quite a bit myself - DD also ill home too now - if it wasn't bad enough, she was at school with a sinus & ear infection, so the poor might was feeling awful anyway, finally got to see a decent GP with that too & she's given her a treatment & said to keep her home.

Hoping things will be sorted by the time she goes back

thanks again for all the help the help

Glad the SENCO getting things sorted, at least it is just a few more terms, hopefully secondary will be able to set things up for when she starts.

GP has v reluctantly referred ds. She bent his little limbs in ways I didn't know were possible and admitted that he is v flexible. She went on about him being too young to do exercises and not wanting to do surgery on him yet (haven't a clue where that came from). Anyway I kept reiterating that mumsnet school and the health visitor want him referred early to give him the best chance. She is going to see if physio will take a referral for him and see what they say.