Would you put the "shit school" down on your list - or not??

[TheBeanAndTheBee]

Hopefully that got someone's attention! I'm desperate for some advice and sorry in advance for the essay….

DD1 is due to start reception in Sept 2014 and we have to complete the application form in the next couple of days. We live in London and have lots of schools in our area - the "shit" school is the one we are in catchment for.

My DH and I have visited all the schools in the area except the religious ones that we don't have a chance of getting into.

I have got 5 schools that we are quite happy for her to go to, all within a reasonable distance - 5-10 min walk etc. But catchment areas are so small here that there is a real chance that she won't get a place at any of our first 5 choices.

The school we are in catchment for has a satisfactory ofsted, but we thought we would go and see it with an open mind. All of the other schools have had an open day, or you could make an appt to go and visit. This school, I have tried and tried to make an appointment over the past 4 months to no avail, getting fobbed off regularly with whomever answers the phone. They finally decided to have an open day last week, DH went. He got pointed in the direct of one of the reception classes and he stood in there watching a class, no one talked to him or told him anything about the school. Their idea of an open day, was that you could walk into a reception classroom and watch. The teacher did acknowledge him by smiling, but that was it in terms of contact from any of the staff. He asked if he could talk to someone and they said "no that's it really!" He wasn't shown any other year groups. The reception lesson seemed ok but his overriding impression was that they were doing it by the numbers and that they just don't care.

So as not to drip feed we are looking to move out from London as soon as we can, but there is a possibility we'll be here for another year or even two. DD2 is due to start in the next school year.

If we DON'T put this down as option 6 there is a very real chance that she might not get a school place at all, or be given another random and probably not very good school which could be as much as a 45 drive away (it's a big borough with a real squeeze on school places.)

If we do put it down, and we get it, my DH feels strongly though that he's not happy for her to attend, he's not so worried about the academic side as we can help with that - it's more the complete lack of care from the adults that he's concerned about.

What would you do????

Why does he think the "shit school" (it's not 100% clear why you're calling it that?) doesn't give appropriate care to the children? Is he basing this idea on their lack on interest in running a full bells-and-whistles open day?

Ignoring the details on why you've decided the school is 'shit' (which I don't feel I can really comment on), yes, put it on the list.

You have six choices in London, and you have been able to use five on schools you would like (or be ok with).

If you don't get into any of those schools, and haven't put Shit School on the list you will either:

• get SS anyway because it is your closest undersubscribed school; OR
• get a school miles away which is equally shit but also has the disadvantage of massive travel time.

There is absolutely no good reason NOT to put SS on the list. The worst that can happen is you get it and decide to home educate or something whilst you wait for a place at another school.

Yes, I would. If there is no other school that is within easy walking distance I would need an excellent reason not to include 'shit school' as my 6th choice. Could you apply to a less popular school near where you or DH work? It sounds like an odd tactic but if the home to school proximity near you is ridiculous, you may find it's worth looking into...DD1 didn't get in to the school she'd attended nursery at (approx 700-800m away) but was offered a place at the primary opposite where DH works. 5 miles away!

Have you tried contacting the Headteacher of Shit School directly i.e. his/her direct email? You may find that is more successful than trying to go via the office. When DD1 eventually got a local school place the office staff told me I wasn't allowed to look around, that most children came direct from the school nursery (they didn't!) etc. etc. I rang, asking to be put through to leave a message for the Head. Within 30 minutes of leaving a message on her voicemail she returned my call and was horrified to hear that I'd been fobbed off. She arranged for me to visit the school and for DD1 to spend a morning with the children she'd be in Reception with.

Which borough are you in? Lewisham? Southwark? Haringey?

yes absolutely put SS on the list.
If you don't qualify for any of your higher preferences, better to get a nearby SS than one equally crap but also miles away.

Thank you for your replies it really is much appreciated. The "shit school" title was in attempt to get some traffic!!

Our opinion is based on the ofsted, the impression we have had in our contact with them and the impression that they gave at the open day. unfortunately we don't know any parents that currently have children there. That's all we can base it on though isn't it?? That's all I've been able to base my opinions on the other schools on - just a general feeling and impression from our visits, plus the ofsted. Unless we know parents of course.

Thanks for the advice to put it down anyway penguins will discuss with DH shortly……….

SE13Mummy I'm in Brent. Interesting idea about the work thing thanks, DH works in Aldgate but I'm freelance mainly in Soho - not sure how we do the pick up and drop offs though…..

Also thanks for the comment about the head - i was hoping that the open day would disprove my initial contact with the person in the school office but unfortunately it didn't! We haven't had any contact with the Head at all…but the person in the office kept telling me that the Head wouldn't be able to see me….

Yes because either you get one of your first 5, you get ss anyway or you get even worse school 5 miles away. The last option is what you're avoiding and you can always change your mind and home educate if you hate what you're allocated that much.

It makes no difference to your chances of getting one of the first 5.

You need to have at least one school on your list that you know you have a realistic chance of getting. It could be that there are other, undersubscribed (so not very good) schools that you would be happier with. Actually not as daft as it sounds - a friend got a school they actually really love and were pleased they went with their impressions and not Ofsted.

But.

You only have a couple of days. London does get a lot of movement so chances are reasonable that if you get this school you'll get a place at one you like.

Agree with those saying you need a school on the list which you are reasonably confident of getting into - especially if school places are in demand, you could easily end up with a worse school, in a place that is difficult to get to.
You can always go back on waiting lists for nearby school after allocations day to see if you can get something you would be happier with.

To strongly endorse tiggytape, do list the schools in order of your true preference. And if you end up with the school you have real doubts about, which you have put sixth DO go on the waiting list of the other five schools!

I am in Brent too (and close to a "shit" school). Agree with everyone else, you need to put one school down that you think you can get into - just put it last if you don't like it.
Are you near a borough border? Have you looked at schools outside of Brent? I am close to the Camden border and also work in Camden and have put a couple of Camden schools near work down - one which was not full on offer day last year (in fact the current reception class has spaces still) but that I like and another which was oversubscribed last year but is having a bulge class this year which should have an impact on furthest distance offered.

I would put it down them worse case, you have a reasonable school close by. If need be send child there and reserve judgement until they start - give it a term.I did loads of school visits - the 'worse rated' school in the area was one I quite liked as it had a warm friendly feel. So much depends on the day. I hated the closest faith school to us with outstanding ofsted... Yet people rave about it. We had an awful visit, much like you experienced. I spoke to other people about my 1-5th choices and what I had seen and others had different experiences .... At the end of the day it may also only be for a couple of years. At least friends will be local too

yup.
we figured better "shit school" 5 mins away
than "shit school" at the other end of the borough
or indeed "no fucking school at all" which is a real risk in some urban areas.

Hi, thanks again all for your responses. Mango we are close to Hammersmith & Fulham border and one of our 5 chosen schools is on that list. 5 mins walk away but not close enough I fear!! We have a bunch of other lovely good schools nearby but religious criteria completely rules us out…..

yes I would.

1. May not be as bad as you think. You may be pleasantly surprised!
2. Better a poor school you can walk to and make local friends than an equally poor school a heck of a long distance away

1. Put your name on waiting lists.

1 teacher smiled at your DH - seems nice - and nothing seems to suggest the class was a disaster, so I wouldn't be concerned
2 teacher was teaching - i'd be less impressed if s/he abandoned the class every 2 minutes to speak to a visiting potential parent
3 there is no basis to really think there would be a lack of care or attention just because the teacher wasn't able to spend individual time with your DH
4 if concerned you still have questions unanswered contact head directly and ask for a meeting.

The Head may not be able to see you...doesn't mean s/he doesn't want to hear from a prospective parent who's been so unimpressed by the contact so far with the school that she deems it 'Shit School' on a public forum and is wondering whether or not the lack of any interest in prospective parents is indicative of how the children are treated.

Try phoning and asking to be put through to the Head's voicemail. If you have no luck with that request the Head's direct email. If all else fails (and the email address isn't on the school website), send an email to [email protected]

That's exactly the impression we have got SE13mummy! I will attempt to contact the head this week, and let you know what happens.

Might it be worth phoning round other possible schools and contacting LEA(s) to see if any are adding classes. Talk very nicely to the people in admissions, at the council, your MP even. The way things are at the moment extra classes are being added to schools without much parental knowledge. My son's school got an extra class a few years ago that no parents knew was coming.

Just to add to what others have said. Yes put school down but ask to remain on waiting list for other preferred schools. Not sure about London but where we live places often become available in schools in summer or early Sept as people decide to go private or move out of area.

Parent View will tell you what the current parents think of the school.

"No responses" on parent view. Is that a good or Abadan thing?

A good or a BAD thing