school exclusion

[sugarandsweet]

what do they achieve? so I've picked my son up again today (2nd time) as he's been excluded. I've heard of nurture groups? are these for educational or behaviour challenging children?

Our school doesn't seem to have one. So instead he gets sent home. How many daily exclusions until they permantely exclude?

a very distressed and frustrated mother.

How old is your DS? What is he being excluded for?

He's 8.. this time is for hurting a child and then lashing out at a teacher :(

He is behind educationally and we have constant behaviour issues he's being monitored by behaviour support but they only come in 1 afternoon a week!

Does he have an IEP? What other measures are in place to help with behaviour?

Someone will ask this, so I might as well:

Are these official exclusions, or is he being 'sent home for the rest of the day to calm down'? If the latter I think those that know will say you do not have to accept them. If the formed they should be triggering some additional support I would have thought.

Nurture group in my DDs primary is children with behavioural issues.
They also have lunch club for children who struggle in the chaos of the classroom.

Is there a known reason for his behaviour? Does he have any TA support?

He has an IEP and behaviour support have put things in place in the classroom which seemed to be working.

at home we have reward charts etc on the go but they aren't calming down his shouting/aggression. Often seeing his younger sister get the brunt of it.

Official exclusions!

See I think my child would benefit from a nurture group and the lunch time club as it's lunch/break time that he gets in trouble mainly. He doesn't know when to stop "playing around" until someone gets hurt. He doesn't seem to know right from wrong.

He doesn't have full time TA support, they help him with his reading and the challenges that the behaviour support have put in place. He is currently being tested for dyslexia but because his concentration level is poor they are doing this in stages. He gets annoyed when asked to do something which he doesn't want to do.

I'm not sure what you expect the school to do rather than send him home when he is hurting other children and "lashing out" at the teacher?

This incident was at playtime, his version was that he was pushed into another child who was then hurt and then the teacher (his words) grabbed him so he retaliated... obviously I'm not there so don't know exactly what happened.

My question was about exclusions and nurture groups.

I'm not saying the school is wrong in sending him home, just wondered what other schools did!

Our school puts them in Chill Out at lunchtime. This is also an option - children can choose chill out of they feel they need it. There is a limit on how many times they choose this.

I would have an immediate meeting with the SENCO at your school to see how they can support him in these crucial periods.

Also, they should have an appointment set up to see an educational psychologist, and following that a behavioural paediatrician. He needs a thorough assessment and possibly a statement.

What does his IEP say about how the school should support him in break times?

Actually there is no set limit before permanent exclusion can be sought. One criteria is if staff or children are at risk of serious harm. BUT. The panel would need to be shown that the school had done everything it could to help the child first.

In one example, a boy was excluded for causing injury to staff. However he had also been put through counselling, therapy, music therapy, etc. Also the school had tried a number of internal exclusions and temporary as well.

Permanent exclusions starts with a governor's panel. If they agree with the school, then you can appeal and this is heard by a tribunal. In your son's situation I would be surprised if they permanently excluded at this point, and if they did I would expect you to win at appeal.

Thank you NynaevesSister for your reply.

Sometimes he has chill out time at lunch. He has "his" playmobil in the classroom for quiet time so he can calm down. His teacher actually said they haven't been using that so much as he's been calmer end of last term/and the beginning of this week.

I've met with the senco and she is working with behaviour support putting things into place in the classroom. and she is working on his dyslexic text. Not once have i heard them even mention an EP.

His IEP doesn't say anything about support at lunchtime. I think I need to revisit this again and take a look at what is on it.

Thank you... I don't think I have to worry about permanent exclusion for the time being then.

xx

Perhaps it's time to get a bit tougher win him at home. He deliberately pushed another child, lashed out at a teacher, and his sister "gets the brunt of it" I think reward charts are a little weak for an 8 yr old with behaviour like this. We have similarly aged children and they wouldn't be at all bothered by a reward chart. Losing all privileges, no friends home for tea, no consoles or computer time, not being allowed to go to Guides or Cubs are some of the things we use to punish bad behaviour.

Thank you BarbarianMum.

mumtobealloveragain... since when did I say we don't deal with his behaviour at home? the reward charts were advised by the behaviour support professionals. We do all the things you mentioned. You clearly don't have a child like mine so perhaps you could just not contribute.

I will contribute wherever I damn well
please! You can't post on a public forum then tell people not to contribute because you don't like what they say!

I was trying to be helpful and give you some ideas by listing how we deal with bad behaviour in our children who are a similar age- because reading through your posts all you've mentioned is what the school can and can't do and what you would like them to do. The only thing you mentioned you do at home is reward charts.

Clearly you only want replies from people who will say what you want to hear, such a shame as a wide variety of opinions always helps.

Yes, you're correct, I don't have a child who behaves the way yours does. If they did I wouldn't be blaming the school or expecting them to correct the behaviour or dismissing it by saying he/she needs time to "calm down" I'd be down on them like a ton of bricks until they recognised that attacking another child/teacher is not going to be accepted.

The thing is mumtobe not all children have the capacity to behave in certain situations. If they don't, punishing isn't going to work because it doesn't address the root of the problem.

My kids are generally well behaved so when they're not I too come down like a tonne of bricks - because I know they can behave and are choosing not too. And because they can behave, the punishment works.

So lucky us. It sounds like the OP (or rather her son) has a rather wider problem to me. In which case punishment alone isn't going to work.

If he has repeated problems with playground control, then part of his IEP should be a behaviour based target.

It should be specific, include what you are aiming for - so not 'behaving well in the playground' but 'when he feels angry he does xx'' where xx could be safe place, safe person, etc

It should show how the school will achieve this - they may need to assign him a playground supervisor, someone who know what his 'safe place' target is, and can intervene before it gets to the lashing out stage.

If they can't afford the support, then they nee to tell you how they are going to give him that support.

This is not about him being ''badly behaved'' it is about helping him to learn self control and that is a a joint job for you and school, and it is a process and maybe a slow one.

I would ask for another meeting with SENCO and ask how you together can move forward to help your son.

good luck Op

Exactly what Steppemum says. Also as suggested the SN board might be better for you.

I am rather worried that your school doesn't seem prepared to address the needs of your child. If you post over there you will find out more about the sorts of questions you need to be asking.

It is great that they are assessing for Dyslexia but that doesn't cause behaviour problems. You have another child so you know the difference between him simply being naughty, and behavioural issues. You have to get a thick skin because as you have already seen, there are plenty of people who believe it is just bad parenting. You need to focus on you as a parent and on your child, and filter everyone else out.

The crucial thing here to focus on is to ensure he stops lashing out. Steppemum's tips on addressing that with the school will really help.

Has he had a Pastoral Support Plan put in place?

This is the least the school should be doing. Frequent exclusions at age 8 are not commonplace, and it sounds to me like his behaviour would certainly justify further investigation. A PSP is a contract between the school, child and parents (and other agencies if appropriate), and is reviewed at least every four weeks.

Has the school discussed raising an SA1 (request for a statement)? This may also be an appropriate course of action. As his parent, you are also able to request an assessment- there is a template letter on the IPSEA website here.

Have the school trained their staff to effective manage his challenging behaviour? I would be suggesting that they train at least three members of staff in TeamTeach- this has been proven to lower some schools' exclusion rates.

If it's just lunchtimes then the school need to look into why is it only these times that it's happening? Obviously they are lacking in something.
I am currently on the other side of things at the minute as my ds is being punched and pushed every lunchtime off a child in his class and I don't necessarily think it's the child's fault (he has autism). The school are obviously not doing something at lunchtimes if it's only then that the problems occurring. I've spoken to ds teacher twice this wk and I'll be going in to see the headmistress if it happens again! It's frustrating as I'd like them to all get on but the way things are this child is going to end up being alienated as I know it's not just my ds he's having issues with.

wrt what do other schools do...

Our school has a nurture room, for the unhappy kids.

But I think a lot of schools don't have any such nurture room, and anyway, ours regularly shut because the dedicated staff member was ill-worked PT-busy.
After DS was excluded he got an IEP (lots of extra paperwork in his file) but was off it again within 6 months. He still has behaviour problems, but not bad enough to trigger the paperwork avalanche or any other procedure.

I don;t think our school did any of the things Steppemum talked about (they don't have the regular staff available).

AT least yours is behind in school; there is a plus side to that. No assessments offered here for children who aren't below average academically or total terrors.

Bloody hell mumtobealloveragain. Really...you are the perfect parent. Congratulations. Presumably, if her DS had only one leg, and couldn't stand up straight you would be busy telling her how wonderfully upright and two legged your own children were.

Sorry OP. Some people.

I have no wisdom apart from keep at the school. Schools often have a tough job to get support in place but the more you speak to them, the more likely it is to happen.

It does sound to me as if the school is not doing all it could to get the possibility of special needs explored. It might be worth making a formal request for statutory assessment of his needs.

Definitely request a statutory assessment - we were in a similar position with my sons last year (multiple fixed term exclusions) and both now have a statement. Don't let anyone tell you he is doing too academically well for a statement as my sons are academically above average.