Attendence/Lateness

[mumtobealloveragain]

In posting here in hope that someone here may be a teacher/head teacher/Educational Welfare or just have experience/knowledge that may help me.

In brief. Myself and my ex have shared residency of our two primary aged children. 50/50. They live one week with me one week with him, alternating. Ex and I don't really speak, he refuses to communicate about the children or any related problem.

Anyway, I was given an Attendence/lateness report at the end of last school year and was shocked to find the children were being taken into school late by him 2-3 days per week, every single week!

I spoke to the head teacher in September who wrote to me stating she had spoken to my ex and reminded him of the need to be on time. When this didn't help and lateness failed to improve she sent him a written warning examining it is important and how it has a detrimental affect on the child. He has refused to discuss this. Head teacher has said it will be monitored,

We have now had a whole term of this school year so before Xmas I asked for another report. The lateness has improved (he has moved so is living a 5 min walk from the school now) but is still regular. They are being taken in late 1-2 times a week every week. Reasons for lateness given as "overslept" and "alarm failed to go off" I don't know how he isn't too embarrassed to write that.

What is your experience of lateness? Is once a week going to be considered a problem to be resolved in some way? I don't want to be seen to harass the head teacher but to me, regular once a week lateness is unacceptable - they are never late for school with me. I'm going to ask the head teacher to write to ex again or send one of their standard "lateness" letters. Do you think that's reasonable?

Also, and this is where is gets a little complicated. I know they are being taken in late more often than is marked on their records. My step children go to the same school so even when my children are with my ex I am doing the school run for my step children. I see him taking our children into school as I am leaving, or sometimes still walking down the road with them. The school have said they need to be there at 0850 and sat at desks by 0900 for register. Anyone not present at 0900 is marked as late. BUT they are often still walking down the road at 0900 or walking in the main gates just past 0900 when they the. need to walk round to the back of the school where their classes are, sort bags etc and get into class. Basically they are arriving between 0900-0910 and for some reason they are not marking them as late! I just don't understand. Do you think they are fudging the figure for their own benefit/to stop EWO involvement or something similar?

It's having a detrimental affect on them as ex is shouting at them to hurry up and they hate being late as it's embarrassing them walking into class late. Sometimes they are 20-30mins late and the last week of term they were 1hr late as ex overslept! (He wrote this in the lateness book). Ex says he doesn't think being late sometimes is a problem, I think it's a big problem as does the school from the letter they've send me.

So, I want to apply to Court and get it added to our Court Order that he MUST take them to school on time or that he must call me if he can't and I will collect them from his and take them (I'm there with my step children most days anyway). But I need to show the court their attendance report to get this done. I need it done correctly and so do you think it would be unreasonable to ask the school to be really strict on their lateness policy for a while and ensure that get a late mark when they arrive late? I don't want them to think I'm crazy and I'm not asking them to do anything untoward, just to stop cutting ex slack as it's not helping long term.

Thanks for any words of wisdom you may have x

Bump anyone? X

Talk to the head about it. Explain that court is the only option you have to put pressure on him to get the kids there on time.

At son's school parents know that if they can get in a door that's not the office and do so before the register gets sent down they won't get marked as late. Last year the register could go as late as 9:15. This year the teacher is sending it down bang on 9am.

So I would talk to the head, explain that you want to support the school and your children, and for this you will need to go to court with the attendance records. At what time do they get marked as late? What can the school do to help support you? Ask if class teachers can be in the meeting.

At our school being late once a week all term would have had, at the least, a meeting with the inclusion officer.

In terms of them being late less often than they actually are, I'd imagine that's because the register isn't taken at 9, but probably about 9.15 by the time everyone is in. If they're there for the register they're unlikely to be marked as late, even though they technically are iyswim.

Saying that lateness does annoy me and once a week (which is marked down so must be fairly significantly late) would be too much for me. Unfortunately I doubt your head will be able to do anything really, you can't force people to get their kids in on time. Sorry I can't be more helpful on that aspect.

Alice there are steps the school can take and it can end with the truancy officer and fines from the local authority. It depends on the head. Ours is very serious about this and your ex would have been sanctioned by now.

Thanks for your posts. I can't help worrying that they will think I am a pushy parent or trying to "involve" them in our separated parents issues by pushing the subject of lateness.

Them being on time is really important to me and we make the effort o have a relaxed morning and get there on time. They tell me they are often up and dressed and waiting for daddy to get out of bed or he has a go at them and says it's their fault!

We don't have an inclusion officer unfortunately. The problem is they are always on time with me (they live with me alternate weeks) so no lateness- so lateness is always diluted by half as they only live with him alternate weeks ie 50% of the time. The EWO for our area want interested when he took them late 2-3 days a week for a whole term so they certainly won't be interested in 1-2 days a week.

I'm going to ask the head for a meeting and hopefully get the teachers onside and ask them to mark them as late every time they arrive after 9am. Hopefully they will agree x

The school have taken some steps to resolve the lateness. The teacher has informally spoken to him explaining be importance of being on time, then a formal letter was sent out too. No EWO involvement yet but I would like them to be involved. He needs a good talking to about how rubbish it is for our children to keep being late. It's him though, he's always late for everything himself too and always has been.

If you offer to pick them up for school, then you might end up doing every school run and then all the children could be late, because you will be trying to pick them up and they won't be dressed, have their bags, shoes, etc ready. I would leave the school to deal with it. You might want to get copies of the records though, in case there are any future disputes.

I think I would try and pick them up. You can fit that in if they are close to school. I would also buy the children alarm clocks (or another device with an alarm) and teach them how to use them. I would try and teach them how to get their school stuff together the night before. I would also be concerned about whether they are having an adequate breakfast if the mornings are such a rush.

Some men say they want involvement with their children and then do not seem to take the responsibility seriously. If he cannot be bothered to get them to school on time, what else can be not be bothered to do?. I personally think one week here and one week there is disruptive for children anyway (sorry if that is a comment too far!). However, this problem would not exist if they were with you OP, would it? I think I would consult a solicitor to see if your ex is not meeting reasonable expectations of parenting and find out if there should be an amendment to the custody arrangements.

Thanks guys. We have a solicitor , unfortunately it's hard work to change a residency order, it's been going to be hard convincing a Judge to add the bit about how ex must et tem to school on time. I'm hoping with an accurate lateness report I can achieve that and then of ex still won't make the effort then I might be able to apply back to court and ask them to grant a change of residency so the kids are with me school days.

They often don't get breakfast as they are too rushed. I guess I need them to tell the teacher that rather than me though to get the school to try and make an action plan

P.s. It wasn't a comment too far. I hate alternate weeks too, it was only ever a temporary solution but the current status quo holds so much weight in courts I've been unable to change it. Ex screwing up is helping my case though!

Anyone been in this position?

You need to get your school's EWO on this. The HT has very limited powers here but the EWO has much more clout. Both will be reluctant to get in the middle of a domestic dispute however tough! The trouble as you correctly point out is that half the time they are on time and the rules are often around consecutive days rather than cumulative however that does not mean nothing can be done. Firstly ask for the attendance policy and find out what constitutes authorised and unauthorised lateness and challenge if they are continually authorising rubbish excuses like overslept - they shouldn't be. Some schools also play the system with late before and after register closes but even if they are late before the register closes - someone should be monitoring. Then ask for the attendance report and late book or equivalent and mark off his weeks and calculate late percentage both authorised and unauthorised for his proportion of the weeks. If is more than 15%, then get an appointment with the ewo and ask for a home visit by them and an monitored attendance plan. Good luck

Thanks. The school have 2 types of late- before registers close marked as "L" and after registered closed marked as "U" for Unauthorised absence.

As far as I can work out, school would like the children there at 08:50. Children arriving after 0900 are marked as late "L" (but I know this is not enforced as I said above I often see them arriving after 9am and when I check the Attendence report it doesn't show that). Children arriving late after registered closed (0930) are marked as "U".

Can I contact the EWO myself or does the school have to refer?

Last school year overall their lateness was 30%. Every lateness was on my ex's weeks, they were never late with me.

Last term it has improved (he now lives right by the school) but is still just under 15% lateness overall. That's again with 0 lateness with me and 1-2 days a week late with him. So it's actually around 25% lateness on just his weeks if that makes sense.

I wonder if I should try and contact the EWO or explain my position to the school and ask them to et the EWO involved. It the 15% overall standard for EWO involvement? If if it's less will they still care if I explain the situation?

Sorry Effic. I think you did answer my question but just to clarify- if I explain to the EWO do you think they will look at just his lateness and try and resolve it (currently around 20-25% 1-2 days a week) rather than the overall percentage which is much lower due to me getting them to school on time every day. EWO involvement would hopefully be the kick in the backside he needs to sort himself out.

As far as I can remember there are 2 types of late. Before register closes & after register closes. Schools seem to be more lenient on before register closes lateness, as it is up to teacher discretion (and a present mark looks better to ofsted than a late). Iirc the register has to be 'open' for 10mins.

Thanks Stella

If you have an L you are just late. If you have U then you have technically missed a session as it stands for unauthorised absence.

The main practical problem with lateness is that time is precious in school. As a teacher, I NEED to take my register at 9, I then need to immediately go through what the day ahead entails. These first 15 minutes are VITAL to ensure each child knows what is going on that day. Children who are late are often repeatedly late and I spend my time rushing around repeating all of the information just for one child - that means my guided reading groups are disturbed, my lesson may have to start late, my class may then be late down to assembly and on and on..... It also sets a really bad example in my opinion to your child - how many young people today are accused of turning up late for their new jobs! Frustrating. There are always ties when lateness can not be helped ( car broke down, sibling vomited on mum at 8:45) . What I hate is being interrupted in my lessons by the parents of late children, the whole class suffers! If I was late for parents' evening there would be riots.

The parent in charge is being very unfair to child and school