Yr 2 sats.....really?

[Wobblypig]

A friend of mine recently told me that her daughter was given a 4a in literacy in her yr 2 sats. Both my children are younger so I have no true comparison, but looking at expected levels this seems beyond remarkable.
From what I can see this would involve using most forms of punctuation reliably, good paragraph structure , spelling and handwriting which seems very good for a 6 year old.

I think she may be being mischievous, to put it nicely, as she has a tendency to be a bit competitive. She has started preparation for 11plus in year3!
In short, is this likely? I am merely being curious, I am not going to call her on this , just interested and slightly amused.

Sounds very unlikely to me. Actually the level 4a sounds unlikely as I think for KS1 it would be reported as level 4 without a sublevel (level 3 is). But who can tell?

Sounds very unlikely. I doubt most schools would even test for a level 4. She would have had to have taught a lot at home as children would not be taught many of the required elements for a level 4 in year 2. Lelvel 3 is very good for the Year 2 Sats. Anyone would be happy with that!

So what.. should be your response.
Or a gentle shrug with a wry smile and a 'how nice'.
Also just change the subject everytime she does this showing off/ competitive parent thing.

No response, just curiosity. What her child achieves and what she tells people entirely her own business. More trying to get measure of what is being said and why.
Most of time she makes me giggle with her tendency to boast but didn't want to do her injustice, if this was likely to be true.

A 4a in literacy is high in year 2. Reading and writing are separate in KS1 SATs. So-4 a in writing?- well wow!! Reading? Well maybe she is thinking because child on high reading level it equates to SATs but think probably that is not the case as comprehension so important.

There is no official level 4 sats paper for ks1 so it's impossible for her child to achieve L4 in ks1 Sats.

Of course it's possible, although extremely unlikely! KS1 SATs are based on teacher assessment backed up by SATs tests. So if a teacher assesses a child as consistently working at level 4 ( and part of this can be to use a KS2 SATs test as evidence), then that's fine ( especially for writing which is all teacher assessment anyway!)

By the end of Y3 DD2 could do her big sisters Y6 reading paper to within a couple of marks of her sister, who got L5.

DD2 could actually read it far more accurately (DD1 is dyslexic).

So a very good reader might actually get L4c/b at the end of Y2 although they aren't normally tested beyond 3, but I doubt they'd write well enough or quickly enough to get 4a on a real SATs reading paper, they are long.

We have used KS2 tests for children who are working at level 4 in KS1 as evidence as spanieleyes. Level 4 literacy requires a level of maturity few 7 year olds possess. Maths is more achievable IME

What do they do in the reading paper out of interest? I've noticed some Y6s are reading the same books as my Y2 DS. I would expect they comprehend better and could answer higher level questions, but just interested.

www.emaths.co.uk/images/stories/zoo/SATs/KS2/English%20KS2%20SAT%202012/ks2-english-2012-reading-booklet.pdf

www.emaths.co.uk/images/stories/zoo/SATs/KS2/English%20KS2%20SAT%202012/ks2-english-2012-reading-answer-booklet.pdf

in KS1 there is more straight forward retrieval type questions but at higher levels children are expected to infer using personal knowledge/experience/opinion. They are also expected to exlore and analyse the author's purpose and use of language and structure of the text.

Ds was given ks2 sats papers in y2 to test for l4. Hewasn't given a sublevel. This was in maths. So it's plausible but a bit odd.

Thanks, that's very interesting. DS would enjoy reading that sort of material, but am quite happy for him not to be tested on it as yet in the way older children would be. There is plenty of time for that.

Yes Mrz I guess DD1 was mature in the sense that people and what motivates them and makes them tick, absolutely fascinates her. She wants to be a Y2/Y2 teacher.

Because of this a lot of the 'why did, John?' 'What else might Alice have thought?' Sort of questions didn't bother her.

She wouldn't have got L4 maths until Y4/5, she got L5, but it's not her thing.

I know a couple of children who are a L4 in Y2/early Y3 but definitely not close to a 4a. This is for writing. One of them was tested in Y2 this year (autumn term) and the other was not tested above the L3 (last school year) but was tested as a 4c in Autumn of Y3 (3rd in Y2 sats). They were at the same school but the headteacher changed this year hence the fact processes have changed and children are now being taught to their true ability.

I do think this is rare but possible, a 4a is extremely rare at this age so don't necessarily believe it's true, like others have said she could be directly (incorrectly) linking the reading level to an NC level.

It's not impossible for the school to have assessed her as a level 4 in year 2, but in my LA, the County Advisors have to be called in to look at the work of any child who the school thinks is a level 4 - the Advisors make the final decision, not the school. I was at year 2 writing moderation last summer and 1 teacher had brought the work of a child whose writing showed strong elements of level 4. After some debate between the very experienced year 2 teachers on the table, the Advisor who was facilitating the discussion (a very experienced Head) took the work to the 2 County assessment specialists who were present, both of whom moderate KS1 work at a national level. After a long and careful consideration they decided that the appropriate level was a 3a. So level 4 isn't impossible, but very unlikely.

I was just depressed at how much better that child's writing was than anything my pupils produced!!

I supposedly have to get 25/30 children to a L3 writing standard at the end of Y2
My head has said that they need to make FOUR SUB LEVEL improvements which is beyond 'good' at a national level (We are a RI school - I think this is putting the stakes too high considering - just aiming for 'good' is more plausible!).
I do however have a boy who was achieving L3 at the end of Y1. I am having to give him a Y3 optional SATs paper later in the term to assess his reading as I am not comfortable or experienced enough to confidently judge a child's reading beyond L3. It is expected that he will gain L3a in reading and writing at teacher assessment level and L4c in maths, again in teacher assessments. Impossible to predict his grade in SATs. He is only 6 afterall and as kids go, they can be having a really shit day on the day of the tests. the tests are only there to 'back up' teacher assessments. I have assessed a couple of children below what they achieved in a SAT test and vice versa. Teacher assessments are by far more accurate as they assess across the year and across all aspects of teaching and learning whereas a SAT test cherry picks a sample of the KS1 curriculum.