Primary school entry dilemma - safe or risky option?

[Matsikula]

As the deadline approaches, we are agonising over the order of our top two choices.

We're in a bit of a problem area (most schools either wildly oversubscribed or with poor results - our local is good, but a faith school of the wrong brand for us). However, we have a decent shot at an excellent school that I would be delighted with, and also the opportunity of a complete unknown quantity - a brand new school with no test results, no older children yet, and not even any sensible admissions data as they were outside theLA system last year as their funding was confirmed late. BUT - and this is a big but - they will offer bi-lingual teaching in a language I can provide support in (though am not a native speaker of).

Our son is at the nursery of the first school and seems to be thriving. I've visited the second and to be honest I wasn't thrilled with what I saw though this was probably because it was so chaotic with 100 odd parents in a small space. The parents seemed nice, the governors very committed and competent, and the head has appropriate experience.

We'd be pleased with either school, but I am agonising about what order to put them in. We're pretty comfortable with our preferences for choices 3-6 and will definitely be using all our options, so we won't do anything daft.

Any thoughts on how to decide?

I would go for the school you like. Forget the bilingual bit, you can help with that outside school - it won't make up for a disorganised school.

You could always ask about how qualified the teachers and head are (it might be a shock if it is a free school).

Thanks for the quick response! it's not that I didn't like it, it's just that there was a bit of a scramble, it is not a big space, and we went in the classrooms just as they were going out to play. they will have more space next year.The work that was out was fine - but only up to year 2 so there wasn't a full range to compare.

The other school is established, and has good music provision which is one thing the new one doesn't have yet, but the reality is they are both urban schools with tiny playgrounds, no sports fields etc, but they are all like that round here.

I'm with you on the qualifications, but they were very clear that they will only recruit qualified teachers (either in the English system or in the other language), so that is not an issue.

I can't agree with you on the bilingualism though - I am a native English speaker though I do speak the other language to a good level. It's just that I think language provision in English state schools is poor. Also the alternative top choice has stacks of naturally bilingual kids so I suspect when they introduce the language they won't need to take it very seriously, because so many of the kids already speak it at home.

I waver on this daily! My husband is pro the new school. Today I am in 'pick the safe option' mood.

I would not look at the faith school as the safe option, it is the local school, which you child is currently in the nursery of. Given that it could have an admission criteria that gives preference to those that are regular church attenders, are you convinced that you will get an offer of a place?

However I do agree with you that the school which is bi-lingual has attractions and that thinking a long way in the future, being able to speak different languages is going to be an advantage. Again though there is distinct possibility that if it is really popular that you will not get the offer of a place.

My inclination would be to go for the school that you feel will be more likely to get in as first preference if you cannot decide between the two schools. However If you believe son is flourishing in the faith school nursery then I would assume he is gaining a cohort of friends and therefore you have to give some weighting to that. Personally I think that would tip the balance in favour of the faith school, all other things being equal.

Hello, the safer option is a faith school - not the one on our doorstep but another where we (Rather I with husband there for child-wrangling purposes) do attend. But even there they have just slightly changed the entry criteria (quota for each of the parishes it serves) and we are not sure how that will change things - possibly in our favour, but hard to be sure.

Am seriously thinking about tossing a coin.

Surely you just put them in your order of preference? Favourite first then so on. I would always include your nearest acceptable school (the one you are most likely to get a place) at the bottom of the list, so you are less likely to end up being given a place in a school across the county if all your other preferences don't work out.

I'm vaguely protestant, (vaguely being the important word) but I would rather send my child to a good Roman Catholic school than a dodgy or possibly dodgy non-faith school. I wouldn't send my children to a nut-job RC school where they turn them into guilty sinners, constantly saying grace, self-flagellating and committing every crime on earth (but feeling terribly bad about it.) I'm a bit wary of schools like that. But in general, (hypocritical transgressions aside for a moment) the faith schools do seem to have good results.

MrsCakes, it is deciding what the first preference is that is the dilemma! The new school is very appealing in a lot of ways, but has only been open since the start of this academic year, which is why it is such an unknown quantity. Plus I haven't had the chance to see it in action in the same way. This time last year there would have been no question what our preference was, hence our son started at the faith school nursery - but that is because this other school was only a possibility with no confirmed site. If you were designing a school for me, this new school would be more or less it (though I'd perhaps like a bit of Christianity chucked in too).

ok providing the bilingual school is not alternative faith and its community school then as we non secular country all state community schools will have broadly christian ethos may have more mix of faiths which can be hood but dd1 s faith school coe is mix of faiths,

Our coe schools dod not select by faith its just distance, kids in care and siblings.

I know some coe schools in london do select by faith.
rc schools that are voluntary aided can chosse who so kids in care 1st, siblinsg sometimes. children baptosed catholic living within parish then outsdei parish and kids with 1 baptised rc parents if any places left after that done on distance. but each school has its won admissions so do check.

Bilingual sounds exiting, lots urban schools dont have much space but do well.

Im similar boat to you 3of schools om ,my list are new and have no track record

Good luck and you should have equal preference so school wont know what order you put them in.

place at nursery never guarantees primary place

I think I know which schools you are talking about and we are having the same dilemma - although debating between the bilingual and a different school. I think the bilingual has so much potential but it is hard to compare potential to much more established schools. My concern is how much effort I might need to put in to learn the second language - which I don't have a background in. So sorry no advice but quite reassured to see others having a similar choice to make!

Hello scratch violet - it's difficult isn't it? And hard to tell how much of the interest at the open day was just curiosity, or even for future years' admissions.

The thing I keep thinking is that plenty of families move country all the time, and then you just have to throw the kids into it and they survive. I wonder if I am doing my son a disservice by angst-ing so much about it.

Could you arrange to see the bilingual school again in the first week or two of next term? If you go around on your own it should be calmer, and you can time it for lessons rather than break.

I have to say I was glad when we weren't as keen on what is now our 2nd choice.

I've seen the advice on here before to imagine it's allocation day and you've been given a place at the bilingual school. How do you feel?
Repeat with the faith school?

And if that does help then maybe flip a coin?

Look at Parentview and see how the results compare.

Bar humbug, good thoughts. I have asked to do a visit, but they said while I was welcome to come, they wouldn't let me see a lesson because of the disruption, so I am not sure what that would achieve (also, the deadline is 15 Jan so not much time either!). I'm trying to imagine allocation day, will get my husband to do that too as it needs to be a joint decision. Maybe after a decent night's sleep...

Well for me being told I couldn't see a school in normal operation would have made my decision for me. I wouldn't choose any school which didn't let me observe normal lessons in progress.

I think I'd agree with mummytime.

Our first choice school uses year fives to show you around, in lesson time, then you go and see the head.

Not only did we see lessons in all their glory, but had a good chance to talk to the pupils and get their view. When we left DH said (and I agreed) that if DD turned out like that we'd be happy.

Another school (2nd choice) specifically arranged for us to go on a day when it was normal lessons and not a charity fundraising day.

Yes, lots of people seem to give this advice about visiting the school separately in normal lesson time, but I can understand the school's perspective. They have only been in operation for one term, and have been inundated with interest. We saw lessons at the open day although it wasn't perfect, timing-wise. these kids are little (year 2s are the oldest), the older ones have all been moved from other schools, and they really need to settle down and get on with teaching them. They know they are going to be oversubscribed and I think if I were the head I'd be saying no to more visits too.

Matsikula - the best schools I know, massively over subscribed all cope with visits from parents (all the time). My DCs secondary organises tours on a weekly basis.

Also having worked in schools, it is not like when you were at school. There are always people coming into the classroom, its something a teacher needs to learn to cope with and the children need to learn to ignore/accept.
eg. Ofsted, parents visiting, heads, student teachers, interview candidates, senior teachers doing "lesson observations", governors, TAs, children being taken out or returned from intervantion, Educational Psychologists (and other professionals), visitors from other schools (maybe doing mock inspections) and so on).

But it is your choice. I wouldn't have booked my cats into a cattery which didn't allow me to visit, similarly my children wouldn't go to a school or nursery without me visiting. The only school any of mine has gone to without me seeing it on a normal day, was because the school hadn't even finished being built when we applied (but he was 16 by then).

Mummytime, I have visited, seen part of a lesson, and they have said I can visit again to talk to the head and generally get a feel for things. but they also said they wouldn't allow me to watch another lesson. I think it is a numbers thing - lots of interested parents, only 4 possible classes to observe at the moment (and also it would only be feasible to do this in the first couple of days of the new term).

I'd rather have the option of doing it, but the head is from outside the UK system, she's focused on getting stuff working fully for the kids whose parents took a leap of faith and are actually there now, and I kind of respect that. I am slightly uncomfortable with the modern thing of state schools marketing themselves - some of the schools round here even advertise on the backs of buses!

Anyway, would be very interested to hear your experience of your son's brand new school.