I can't stand homework - do you think it's a good thing?

[mydoorisalwaysopen]

DS1 (year 5) gets the same homework every week.... "This week we have been learning about X. Tell me what you know." Every week I have a battle to get him to do it and it just doesn't seem worth the effort. Marking is usually a tick and a smiley face. DS2 (year 2) gets a more detailed description of a task but very often it's a poster for this, that or the other. Marking is perfunctory but does occasionally contain a comment.

What are your thoughts on homework? I wish they didn't have any at primary school mainly as I think what they are set is of limited value and the main lesson being learnt is that mum will sit you down and drag it out of you. I won't be doing that every night for a couple of hours when they go to secondary school.

passedgo, I don't think schools can communicate it because generally the teachers don't agree themselves! We have this situation where some teachers are ds's school are refusing to give homework (ironically, the older year groups) and others are giving loads! It would help for the Head to have a strategy and communicate it to parents. Maybe the teachers would need to get into line then.

don't make them do an effing poster which the parent is just going to do for them anyway

Why??

Why do parents do this? If the kid doesn't want to do a poster, then let them do cut and stick from internet downloads. Those who enjoy it can spend more time over it and get a better quality result that they can be proud of.

But the parent doing it instead?

Kirsty Allsopp had a massive 'anti-homework' campaign running a few years ago...worth a google to see if she's still on that bandwagon (as it appears the majority of us would happily join too!).

I am still slightly confused as to why there are so many posts on here from parents completely hating / berating homework, yet still getting the kids to do it! I simply emailed the teacher / deputy / head and said DS is not doing it as I don't agree with homework for infant kids. I got completely positive responses from all 3, and we never touched it!

I loathe homework! DD is in p4 (she's 8)and she gets lots of it. Same old tedious stuff every week and she has to do at least 45 minutes every night. DS is in p6 (10) He gets hardly any. His teacher also hates homework and thinks they should be out playing and getting fresh air after school rather than doing homework that she says should be taught in class time anyway. I love her!! She also believes in hugging children when they are upset no matter what age they are. She's nearly retired! I hope she waits until after DD gets her.

I think it depends on the homework. DD (y2) gets reading books 3 days a week plus some writing work for over the weekend connected to work they've done during the week e.g. using adjectives. I think it's really helped her and her handwriting has improved a lot. It is always marked and there is always a comment. She didn't like doing it at first because she's a worrier but now she just gets on with it, it is part of her routine. I don't help her particularly (the school emphasises the importance of this) but I am around to help her sound out the spellings. We also get the odd bit of work during the week like 'this week we are learning about dictionaries, please could you verbally give your child some words to look up and then check them every evening this week' (I've paraphrased) although it was a big assumption that everyone has a dictionary. I think this amount is about right for a 7 year old. I think that large amounts for Y1 and younger is a bit pointless.

When I was 7/8 (well over 30 years ago) I remember having everything up to the 12x table to learn off by heart and my parents had no input at all so homework is not a new thing, I just think that parents seem to get more involved these days (which may explain why some studies have found primary homework to be of no benefit to children).

I don't really remember getting any homework from primary school other than learning things like times tables. Probably there was reading set, but I read so much that it obviously didn't register! Projects etc were all done at school. I may be misremembering but if so, it obviously didn't do me any lasting damage!

Even at secondary school, I don't remember getting much until about 3rd year - when I changed schools from a comp to a grammar, suppose that might have had something to do with it! My parents were primary school teachers and I don't recall them ever sitting down and helping me with homework. I remember asking them specific things sometimes, Dad for maths and Mum for music, but that was when I got stuck.

Tbh my most abiding memory of primary school homework is from when I was about 5 (I remember because it was the year I had a certain pencilcase - I was one of those children!) and I came rushing home to recite the 2x, 5x and 10x tables to my mum, who after a day of teaching primary kids, must have been thrilled to have it continue at home! She did a good impression of being impressed, anyway

One of the main points of homework- speaking as a former teacher- is to foster independent learning and take learning beyond the classroom.
A lot of homework is 'pointless' and often exists purely because it's on the timetable/ curriculum and has to be ticked off by the teacher as having been set.

If you feel your child's homework is too easy or too challenging, then this is something you should talk to the school about.

IME many teachers don't put much thought into homework and forget how disruptive it can be to the family if it's at the wrong level.

But you ought to feed back to the school if you are unhappy- there's nothing wrong in challenging them on the homework they set and asking what your child should have achieved by it.

icrave I admire your stand buy does your ds not feel left out being the only one not giving his homework in?

I'm a primary school teacher and I think most homework is pointless. At lower end of school reading and learning key words are useful exercises at home but after that it's just a tick in the box for schools. But panzee is right, it's parents who moan if we don't set it !

I don't mind admitting that I have done homework for my kids at times- forging their handwriting.
I take a very active interest in my children's education, both in and out of school, but there have been many times thta the homework was far too repetitive and boring.
I do understand the need for consolidation, but if it becomes pointless then children just switch off.
A lot of the time it wasn't marked and they had loads of homework every night at primary. The head forced the teachers to pile on the homework, I think it became too much for them to mark sometimes, every single night kids would have at least 2 or three items, plus ongoing project work.
If it became too much I would select the parts that I though were useful and just do the rest myself.
I also need time to educate my children at home ( although they go to school full time) and over areas that are badly taught at primary- like science.
I would rather use the time I do have to talk to my children about atomic structure than simply copying out screeds of meaningless text set by the school.

vari you make a good point.

When parents moan about homework it's often because they can't see the point.

This I feel is either because it is badly thought through, or because there has been insufficient communication.

When my DC were little, HW, for the most part, seemed to me evidently purposeful. I could see on a day to day basis, its value. I could see the part it was playing in progress - as one does with reading, or learning a musical instrument etc.

Communication was very open with regular parents evenings to discuss curricula, HW etc. Departments often had evenings too, where they explained what they were trying to achieve and how we parents could help.

It was expected of all parents that we would be fully supportive and engaged, and for the most part, we were. The odd child whose parents couldn't really be arsed didn't generally fair too well.

So they're making primary school kids do homework now?? Good grief. And guess what... Education isn't any better for it is it?

I hated homework in secondary -my school gave us what was supposed to be 2 hours a night and double at weekends. I didn't see why my dad should come home, plonk himself down in his chair and expect us all to run around after him, while I had to do homework (and running around). Not fair is it? And why should we overload kids that way? What happened to letting kids be kids and play for goodness sake.

I think it's an excuse for poor teaching and discipline in class. I paid attention in class, knew what they were talking about, and homework was just a waste of my time (more so as I had to look after kids, dogs, do paper rounds and had no place of my own to do it in). It eventually became a huge issue for me. I ditched it and learned what I wanted to learn (history) at the local public library.

And less of it would mean more time for teachers to concentrate on getting educational standards back to where they were! I would support my kids if they refused to do homework and wanted to spend their time learning what they wanted to learn, especially in primary. They're kids for crying out loud, not machines.

Lots of mixed up points there but hope you get the drift.

I take the view that school should begin at 9 and end at the end of the school day. I think that if a school wants to set additional work then it should make time available at the end of or during the school day.

I believe that, outside of school, the child should be free to pursue its own interests, to relax and to be free of the influence of formal schooling.

varigated schools do not need to "take learning beyond the classroom". I think this is a patronising view. Learning takes place beyond the classroom anyway, in the form of structured activities, hobbies and interests. Schools do not have the monopoly on learning.

Wordfactory 'The odd child whose parents couldn't really be arsed didn't generally fair too well.'

Precisely why schools shouldn't rely on parents to teach their children. If they can't do it within 6.5 hours, 5 days a week, 36 weeks of the year, there must be something wrong.

schools do not need to "take learning beyond the classroom". I think this is a patronising view. Learning takes place beyond the classroom anyway, in the form of structured activities, hobbies and interests. Schools do not have the monopoly on learning.

Learning takes place beyond the classroom in the ways you describe if you are an educated, reasonably well off and educated parents.

What about the other kids whose parents are none of those?

I think it's nonsense to say that homework has no place.
If you say that learning stops at the school gate- unless of course you are a resourceful and educated parent who can afford the time and money to help your child with 'structured activities ' etc- then children grow up thinking that what is done in school stays in school.

For example- an fairly extreme example by some people's standards- there are families that have NO books for pleasure in their home.

The only book their child reads is at school. They could therefore grow up believing that reading was only something you did 'in school' if they have never seen an adult sit and read for pleasure.

As a former teacher working in literacy this is not that far off the mark- you'd be amazed at how many families do not have novels in their homes and how few men read for pleasure in front of their children.

So introducing a child to the pleasure of reading outside of the classroom is one goal in itself.

I have no truck with this idea that you learn in school, come home, and then do other things. Education in the broadest sense is about learning throughout your whole life- not simply when you are in a classroom and being made to learn things.

I had masses of homework at junior school because it was ages back and everyone did the 11+. The work I did at home simply reinforced what I'd done during the school day- I'm sure I had maths and English almost every day- and my father used to spend hours with me helping me with the maths.

varigatedivy I agree learning does not stop at the school gates but I couldn't disagree with you more on everything else you have said.

Most of the homework sent out in primary schools is ill thought out & often worksheets or tasks which do not meet the individual child's needs.

Teachers then usually put a tick at the bottom or quite often it gets lost amoungst the vast amounts of paperwork on their desks. That is not learning!

I can see the point of sending reading books home to some children, but usually these are reading scheme books which some parents make their tired child read in the evening instead of reading them a book themselves at bedtime. Wow, how to put a child off reading in one easy stroke! How about sending home some wonderful examples of children's fiction to be shared at bedtime?

If homework in primary school is to encourage independent learners, then how come most children require a LOT of parent input? Homework is often 'one size fits all', with little or no differentiation.

I'm not blaming teachers here, they have enough to do without marking piles of useless homework. Seriously, it is a waste of everyone's time.

If kids must have homework in primary school, then at the very least it should be ideas for things to make or do. Things which do not require marking but which could be displayed on a home learning table or something to be admired by all & maybe inspire others in the class. Also it should be optional.

The worst reason for homework at primary age is 'that it prepares them for secondary school'. What a load of bollocks! It does not. Can't they just learn that lesson WHEN they get to secondary school? They don't take exams until the end!

What bugs me more than anything though is parents who complain about homework but still do it! Please all of you, put your money where your mouth is! Homework is not compulsory. You don't agree with it? Don't do it!!!! Simple.

The most important thing for kids to learn when they get home, is how to spend quality time with their families. They must have adequate time for play and to process their day. Learning does indeed happen ALL THE TIME, but no-one needs a worksheet or a project to make them learn!

No no no no no no no no.
THink that covers it.
except for reading and times tables.
Let them learn through play, fighting.
yeah how will they learn once they get into secondary school.
Not a clue.
I couldn't be a more engaged (but not pushy) parent, always been a governor of their schools ( state). I adore my children, only want them to be happy etc and huge musical, sporting and academic stars ( their dad and I aren't, so god knows how that will happen).
I have wasted more emotion over homework in the last 12 years than anything else.
The theoretically more gifted one still resists homework and the dyslexic one gets on and does it.

They both hated it always.
So let them play, fight, eat worms, learn to communicate don't do useless SAT related worksheets.

GOt that off my chest.

Oh and kids do not need structured activities to learn either! They need very few things, very few toys, some books and so forth, maybe some outdoor space. They need time and space to be creative and use their imaginations. They need conversations and interactions with their family and the wider community. These things are what they need after school, not homework & not structured activities. So guess what? Even children from poor families can achieve this.

we get 30 minutes of homework each night for DS1.
it has been a battle.
So we now do what the teachers have advised.
we sit, talk through the task, ensure he understands what is expected.
we check if there is anything he feels he will need help with.

Then we set the 30 minute timer on the oven
after 30 minutes it all goes away. (unless he only has less than five minutes left to do)
He is not supposed to have more than 30 minutes, the task should be designed not to take longer,
If he has faffed around I am not going to take any more family time doing it with him.

It works well for us. They are getting into the habit.
DS2 gets reading each day and spellings and tables to learn each week we do that in the car to and from school each day.

I really have no problem with homework as long as it is well planned by the teacher.

passedgo it was part of the school's ethos that the home/school partnership was strong and that parents should fully commit to support.

Since it was a private school, no one had to be there. You paid your money knowing exactly what was expected.

That was pasrt of the reason I chose it - to be fully involved. And the overwhelming majority of parents felt the same.

The education provided by school and us was second to none. My DC loved school. And I'll be honest, I never had any problem getting my DC to do the HW. It was short, focussed and valuable. Exactly as it should be.

Maybe we are talking about 2 different things?

Most parents' gripes here are about the lack of suitable homework, not HW per se.

It is an interesting topic- I've actually discussed this with professors of education in unis and they can't even agree!

The common ground was that homework ought to be meaningful and at the right level.

It's a mistake to say all HW is wrong, imo.

Some children do benefit from the reinforcement they can get at home by doing more examples of numeracy than there is time for at school. The same applies to reading.

I've taught across all ages and at secondary level you don't get through the curriculum unless a certain amount is done at home. It's not a bad idea to get children into the habit of HW before year 7.

If you find you are having to help your child all the time with their HW then you ought to speak to the teacher because your child should be doing it themselves, with a tiny bit of help.

If they are struggling then it proves they need more of it- not less- unless their teacher has really got the level completely wrong.

Wearing my other hat, then I know that as a teacher I sometimes groped around for HW to set, simply because it was on the timetable- set by the Director of studies etc.

HW is only useful if it extends, prepares, or reinforces something taught, or which is going to be taught. If it doesn't do any of these and the child is simply jumping through hoops then it's a waste of time.

Really though if you feel your child's HW is a waste of time, too easy or too hard, then this is something you really ought to talk to the school abaout.

picnic and pot: you've nailed this argument nicely.

varigated I understand that you are seeing things from a teacher's point of view. You are in favour of homework and trying valiantly to justify it. I commend you for sticking to your guns.

I grew up in the days where any sort of contact between school and home would have been unthinkable. We had the 11 plus, which everyone sat. There was no homework, and no coaching. Schools were trusted to get on with the business of teaching. Parents were expected to send their kids to school fed, alert and ready to learn. The system worked mainly because of this implicit sense of trust.

I believe that this sense of trust has disappeared as schools have become under pressure to meet increasing expectations: from parents, who now have "choice" and so are asking more questions of schools, and from the Government and its targets and league tables. As schools need to justify their performance children's education becomes an exercise in box ticking. Homework ticks a box, so schools can't really be blamed for setting it if it makes them look better.

I don't actually mind it because DS1 does 10 minutes worth four days each week (Mon to Thurs). I supervise him, get to see him consolidating his learning, and it's lovely to see the progress he's making. I can see he's coming on leaps and bounds. He's in P1.

D'oh! He's not, he is actually in P2