Streaming in Year 1 / Summer Borns.

[rafa]

Hello,

Just wanted some feedback from others that have been in similar situation. DD currently in year one, latest possible August birthday. Struggled in reception with phonics and reading but was working at the expected level for her age.

Now in Year 1 has really got going. Classes are streamed for phonics (4 sets,1 being the most advanced ) and she is currently in set 4. I mentioned to her teacher about the possibility of her moving up a set as she is really coming on now and the teacher said the problem is she may struggle as will have missed some of the work that has been done.

My issue is I know that she is where she is because of her age. If children are already streamed at such a young age and doing different work what hope have those in the lower sets ever got of getting to their full potential,especially the summer borns?

So my questions are, do you think I should bring it up again with the teacher or just leave it? How are ability groups reassessed in your experience and when do the summer borns catch up?

Thanks all!

christmasjumper I agree - the summer born thing is a mixture of red herring and self fulfilling prophecy - in some school summer borns are treated worse and then they perform worse and people put it down to their age rather than the poor treatment they have received. My DD2 is the youngest child in her year (latest possible august birthday) and has been the top performer in her year in both literacy and maths (though FAR from it in PE) since the day she started the school, her closest chums - also late summer borns, the same physical size as her (wee) are also on the top table. They have however been treated significantly worse than their autumn born peers, the school operates a split year system based solely on age and in alternate years, these 3 girls (all operating a levels several years above the expected level for their chronological age) were in classes with the oldest children from the year below, and in the other years, the older children in their year - some of whom were working at 2-3 levels below DD2 - were in classes with the younger children from the year above. Absolutely bonkers. It's not surprising that some of the summer borns in DD2's year have fallen behind - but it is in no way a foregone conclusion to to month of birth. Or, probably nature. It;s all about nurture.

My advice to the OP would be not to wait for your child to 'catch up' but to let her forge ahead at her own pace in her own time at home, and meanwhile don't let the school pigeonhole her and treat her less well than her older peers. They should be teaching her appropriately for her ability not based on her chronological age or a tidy table system.

Children are streamed (seated in ability groups) from day 1. Are they assessed before they are streamed? They are not. The assessment is finished by October/November from both English and Maths. My dd jumped 2 ability groups from both English and Maths after she was assessed. In the High Achievers group were 2 September born children and none summer born. The Senco told me that it is very unlikely for a late August born child to be in a very top...

However teacher's, TA's children are always getting upgrades...

no children are not streamed (seated in ability groups) from day 1 in all schools .. may be the case in your child's school but certainly not universal.

I actually find the term "ability" groups quite misleading and damaging. It seems to imply a judgement as to the child's innate ability to do things and to learn rather than a snapshot of how they are working at that particular time. It is frustrating to have a child classed as "low ability" simply because they may be younger, have English as a second language or not have the maturity to learn yet. Conversely you have children classed as high ability who could just be older or have benefited from going to a more academic nursery or pre-school.

I think that the term 'learning stages' is far more accurate as it categorises the stage the child is at rather than the child themselves.

I do think that as well as the educational aspects there is also a deep psychological impact on the child and how they are perceived. The top table in DCs class are really pushed on the achieve wheras the bottom sets work at a very slow pace. Even though my DC is ready to move on and the teacher says she is capable of more they have said they don't want to push her. It feels like a case of know your place! I certainly feel as though the school just want me to accept that DC is low ability and leave them alone!

Ability groups can even effect the way a parent sees their child. One of my friends has a lovely DC, very bright and interested but quite immature. He is on the bottom table and friend has remarked to me that obviously he will never be academic - simply because of the fact the teacher has placed him lower in the class.

Anita. What your SENCO said is appalling. Of course summer born children can be extremely clever and deserving of a top table seat! Would your SENCO recognise such a child I wonder? Some children are just very bright for their age and learn very quickly. These children can be summer born. I hate this label as it means schools do not make sure each child is taught according to ability, but is taught according to birth date. It is a lazy assumption. What would the SENCO think of a summer born who entered school already reading or being able to read way above chronological age at 5 years old? Around here that would not be uncommon.

Milly - it was true of me, and of my daughters.

Milly -I agree with you, there are always going to be those that are very bright for their age but if you take two children of average ability, one that is autumn born and one that is summer born, statistically won't the autumn born be a higher achiever? I thought that had been proved.

rafa you can make stats do anything you want them to,really. In some LEAs, until recently, summer boris started school later than autumn horns (in January or even after Easter). Some parents keep their younger children at home anyway. Some schools, as we have been discussing, treat summer borns differently (worse) from day one, before even having the port unity to evaluate their current attainment levels. Some parents treat summer borns differently (worse) even though there may be no basis for that differential treatment. The whole thing is something of a self fulfilling prophecy. One if the reasons it's entrenched in popular received wisdom now is because schools and parents use it to excuse poor attainment. We rarely hear 'autumn borns are almost always ahead of the rest' because on all those occasions when it doesn't turn out to be true, the school or the parents would look bad. So it doesn't get hammered home as the 'on message' soundbite in the way that 'summer borns are almost always behind the rest' does - because that's a message that wins either way - either you're right and it's a handy excuse or you're wrong and everyone is delighted about it.

August thirty first is the worst thing I ever did to my older son. Little one got July 12th so hopefully a month or so better!

"if you take two children of average ability, one that is autumn born and one that is summer born, statistically won't the autumn born be a higher achiever?"

I think we are confusing achievement with ability and potential to achieve.

rafa, I think that the effect when children is very young is real. To me it seems self evident that an average four year old will be able to do more than the average five year old.

However I think that the reason the gap doesn't close as much as it should and is still significant at GCSE level is down to other factors. Parental and teacher expectations, children's self confidence, streaming, assessment methods in the early years and early school starting age all spring to mind. So I think that policy makers should be very interested in these statistics.

However as a parent whose child has already started school I would try not to think about them too much. Your child is an individual and can do well regardless of his birth date. As a clearly literate and articulate individual you can change things for her by teaching her phonics and how to read at home yourself.

There are great resources out there. I like Floppy's Phonics and Songbirds.
There will probably be a bit of a time lag between her improving and moving group at school but eventually it will happen.

Obviously I meant to say that an average five year old will be able to do more than an average four year old.

I really hate streaming young children by segregating and labelling them by top, middle and low abilities regardless dates of birth. I think it is a form of child abuse. What sort of bstrd introduced such classroom management? !
rafa - my summer dc couldn't do phonics, reading and writing during the entire yR. So I got whole of a full list or pile of the phonics that with pictures and sample words. Each piece of paper is about half of A5. There were over 50 of these phonics (not sure). Anyway I stuck each of these little papers on the doors upstairs and the wall along side the stairs. Everyday I went through with dc these phonics and actions as we went up and down the stairs in the morning and/or night time. When reading with dc now and again I pointed out to her the phonics in some of the words. Sometimes I asked dc if she could spot any phonics in any of the words. By the time dc was 7 and 3 months old her reading age was nine and spelling age 11. I believe for literacy as long as one continues to read and listen one will progress with or without phonic knowledge.

Now my dc is in middle set. In general a summer born child has to be more advanced to be average. However a autumn born child only need to be average to be in top and even being a little behind s/he still can be in middle. How frustrating that is!

DB1 had a birthday on Aug 31st and has done extremely well for himself. DB2 has an October birthday but started school a year early and therefore was very comfortably the youngest in the year. Academically he was always in the top groups in his adopted year group and went on to Uni, PhD etc.
This is about aspiration and expectation.
I have posted before in the topic but boys are almost expected not to do as well as girls and excuses are made for them "well he's a boy.,," I suspect the same happens with summer born children.
However children do need to be given differentiated work, not all the same thing otherwise what do people expect DS1 should be doing who can add double digit numbers in his head whilst the most of the rest of the year are dealing with single digit addition to 10.
Those arguing against any kind of streaming/setting are you arguing against differentiation too? Differentiation of individual work will still mean that some children move ahead of others very quickly. If you wouldn't differentiate work what is your actual practical solution to a child that is ready for the next step?

Personally, I do not have a problem with differentiation of individual work. I do feel though that rigid ability groups which are set early in a child's school career can be very detrimental to a child's development. Too often, children aren't given the opportunity to access the work that children in the next group are dealing with even if they are completing the work that has been set for them with ease. Perhaps in that situation there isn't enough differentiation ...

Cloutiedumping - that is the problem we are experiencing with our summer dcs. My dc1 was allocated into bottom set since yr1 at the age was just 5 dc1 never develop any interest and confidence in the subject at all even now. When my dc1 eventually caught up in yr4 there was no space in the middle or top sets for anyone to move into. So dc1 had to stuck in the bottom set putting up with easer tasks. I had to do extra work with dc1 at home to fill the gaps. What I've learned from the set groups system is that if I don't care about my dcs' education no one will.

Officially they're supposed to catch up before GCSE's I think. I have 2 summerborn dd (1 early summer, 1 late). School attitudes to summerborns (despite there being SO much evidence) drive me up the wall.

My early-summer dd was bottom table in KS1. Possibly dyslexic, streaming helped with phonics but the lack of anything interesting for science, numeracy and art meant teachers never noticed her strengths and she was convinced she was stupid .

She caught up by setting herself a huge amount of reading & copying at home (I would never have asked her to do this because imo kids should be outside playing). This improved her work level to the point that when we relocated and her school records failed to follow the new school assessed her and placed her on the 2nd table. I doubt this would have ever happened in her old school though and you shouldn't have to relocate for it!

I would suggest, rather than speak to teacher again, just yet, allow your ds to take in stuff he's done at home to show the class (poems he wants to read etc). We did this several times to bump up reading levels etc . But mostly just keep encouraging him and reminding him that he's not stupid - just had a lot less time alive and able to learn!

Btw my other dd always bucked the trend, being far ahead of her class. This causes even more issues as she is emotionally very young compared to the other, much older, top-table kids. This ridiculous Sept-Sept system fails even the unusually bright ones!

Right thanks everyone for all the advice and information. This has really spurred me on, I have just ordered some phonics learning resources off the internet and I am going to have a go myself.

I will get her into that next set even if it takes alot of work and effort from me and her!!!

Be led by your child. Ds was pigeon-holed by his reception teacher for being incapable of everything, it might have been his language difficulties, maybe it was being a boy, maybe it was being summer born and very immature for his age, never mind his year group. But he liked reading, he read lots but his teacher had no faith in his ability to move up the levels and she had plenty of excuses as to why he couldn't, none were fixed in fact. I listened to ds read every day...and I knew he got it...so I ignored the teacher and made frequent visits to the library and he made incredible progress in his reading with me...but that reception teacher never moved him on, we still read the easy books from school because he'd have read anything.

Reading has always been the one thing he excelled at in school, his feeling of success...the thing he loved and the subject which propped up his self doubt when he was put in the bottom groups for other subjects. I supported him in maths too in the infant years but then I backed off as he started to feel negative about the extra support.
He is now in Year 6, he has matured and finally he has decided he wants to apply himself, I am right there with him supporting him all the way....but it's him that is asking for the extra help...he is the one who is motivated to succeed and it's in everything, not just school but extra curricular activities too and to me that was always really important - developing an internal sense of motivation was essential to success, I could help but he needed to want it...I feel there's no stopping him now.

i am pleased they are taught/grouped by ability. My son struggles with reading and phonics, this means he can be taught at a level to suit his needs, if he was given harder work he would struggle even more and have his confidence dashed completely. Maths is his strong point and working at least a year of where he should be, he would be bored stiff if he had to go at the same rate as some of the other children, he needs to be constantly challenged which he gets with ability groups. Take these away and I would have a child learning nothing in both areas, more than likely getting bored and playing up in class, this would be disasterous as at the moment he listens and works hard.

If your own dcs managed to get into the top set early enough then ok your dcs are not affected by the ability set system. Otherwise you and your child will have to work doubly hard and may still just stuck in the same set and no hope of moving up. Who need lower ability sets or worse classes? The kids or the teachers. I am not talking about just the summer born but children of any birth months as there are some very late autumn boomers as well.

your child will have to work doubly hard and may still just stuck in the same set and no hope of moving up

Yes - had that with DD1 and maths.

The top set doing things others weren't but DD1 did them with maths factor but it took a new teacher and her being very much ahead and it just being her before she was moved up a set.

I'm glad I started the younger DC with maths factor earlier - straight after bad reception year for middle DC - as he was assessed quicker and move up much faster so didn't have his confidence knocked as much.

my2bundles, I know what you mean but I think the best way is extra help in small groups for those who are struggling with the basics (when the others are doing some thing other than literacy and numeracy though or as Mrz has pointed out they will miss out on the new stuff). Then fun extension activities for those that are zooming ahead. Book clubs, math puzzle solving competitions etc etc.

The problem is that development is so variable in very young children and there is a big relative age gap too. Early setting then entrenches these initial differences which is why you end up with a substantial gap in GCSE results between those born in August and September when the difference in cognitive abilities between a 15 year old and a 16 year old really ought to be pretty small.

Will relink to my bbc news article which goes into the whole thing regarding streaming and summer birthdays

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21699054

I think the fact that so many people on here are having to/had to do extra work or tutoring with their lower set DC's to bring them up speaks volumes about how damaging setting by ability from such a young age can be.

I think it is really sad that so many parents are having to put in such a lot of time and money into doing what the school should be doing for their children!

Even by the end of Y1 I can see how the gap can widen. I also don't understand why they don't just differentiate by outcome and thereby give all children the chance to access the same work.

For example in DC class the lower set do 3 spellings per week. The top set 6 per week. So after a 39 week term that's 117 spellings extra that the top set have had the chance to practice and to demonstrate that they can do. How on earth is a bottom set child meant to catch up with 117 spellings - even if they have improved loads over the year!

But surely there is another way... Why don't all children get given the 6 spellings to learn but different targets so bottom set get a star when they get 3 right, middle set if they get 5 and top set 6. In this way all children get the opportunity to learn the same spellings. The bottom set can either stick at learning 3 or choose to learn slightly more. Even if they only get 4 out of 6 at least it is more than the opportunity they are getting if their learning is capped.

Also I know people make the point that some children do need to take things slower and are happier in the lower sets - this is true but this is the trouble by grouping 6 or 7 children and teaching by ability when actually those children may have a range of needs. Some may actually have their confidence damaged by not being allowed to take on more work. If you differentiated by child in the class you would get a far more tailored educational system.

rafa glad to hear that you are going to be helping your DC - I'm with you on that! As vkyyu says sadly if you don't do anything about DC's education it seems as though no one else will. I feel that it has been a very sad start to DC's education that she has started off with everything weighted against her due to ability sets and a disinterested and inexperienced teacher.