"Challenging" maths homework - is this standard?

[redskyatnight]

DS is in Year 5 in the top maths set (all children currently working at 4a or above).

Once a week his teachers is sending home some homework - which they are told they do not have to complete but the teacher wants to see how they tackle it.

The homework consists of a challenging problem (some are from the nRich programme) where the actual maths to be used is not that difficult - the problem lies in working out how to how to approach it.

DS is generally unable to tackle them unaided, though can usually get somewhere (not always to completion) with some help.
His experience is farily typical of his class.

I understand that the school is trying to stretch the children (which I agree is a good thing) and presumably work out who might be able to tackle Level 6 SATS next year, but just wondered if it was "standard" to set such challenging homework (some non-mathematically minded parents report they have no clue how to do them either)?

I think it depends on the group. DD is year 5 top maths group, we have been told they are an exceptional cohort who feed off each other. They have completed primary curriculum and are now doing year 7 work. It astounds me the homework she is sent home. The teacher says she is running with them to see how far they can go. She has no upper limitations of what she expects them to achieve.

I don't know if it's standard or not, but I think it's a good idea to set them challenging work. I guess the difficulty is the same as with all things, if the child needs parental support for whatever reason and the parents can't or won't provide it then the child will inevitably be at a disadvantage unless he or she can find a substitute for the parent. But that's no different in life at large. Because one pupil's parents are lacking that's no reason not to give the work out.

It sounds like an excellent maths department. Is it state or private?

I would suggest to parents who are unsure how to help, online for free there is BBC bite size, Khan Academy and of course nrich may have similar problems which will give an idea of how to start finding solutions.

Letts or CPG revision guides also make good reference books.

Kind of: It's part of a pilot for a national plan to raise levels of mathematical literacy amongst adults in time for the next PISA survey. Being a bit older it's not too bad for us, but if the parents are under 30 the child is supposed to be given twice as much work for you to do.

DD at State Middling Primary got some of this in Y4 and Y5. Being mathematically minded, I back off maths and let them try to do it all themselves. The trouble comes when DD has done that, asks me whether it's correct and there are errors. With silly arithmetic mistakes I'll just tell DD it's wrong and let her find and correct the problem. Thereafter it varies i.e. if there's a obviously useful principle they don't know I might explain that, but it really does vary and I have left some things for school to sort out.

I think it sounds a good thing but I also think it'd be sensible to have something they do more independently and actually complete fully...both type of activities have their own merits.

y7 DD is in top set maths & they were set a paper for y9 top set maths the other day. Top mark was 62% (DD looked on enviously).
She's got other learning going on that is more in her ability, just the odd big stretch.

Is he enjoying it or is he being put off maths by constant problems he can't solve on his own?

If he enjoys it, fine. If he is finding it demoralising, then I suggest you feed back to the teacher and lay off them unless he can do them himself.

I think its a really good idea if its just a challenge not a set piece of work. There are two types of maths problem

1. Using & applying techniques learnt in class
2. Thinking outside the box & using logical thought to solve a problem presented in an unfamiliar way.

There is nothing wrong with the first type, I got through my maths degree mainly based on these problems. The second type is far more interesting though, develops problem solving skills & also gets kids used to being 'good at maths' that there are some problems that they may find hard but most importantly not to give up and shut down just because they can't see how to do the answer straight away. If they get used to working their brains for a solution they'll get a huge sense of satisfaction at the end and it will set them up for the intellectual challenges they might meet later on

I think it is a brilliant idea, with one caveat.

Does the teacher allow them time to share strategies/show a possible way of doing it? I think there is a lot of value in seeing how other people approach a mathematical problem - I'm sure there will be several different ways within the class every time she sets a question. I can see that it would be frustrating if no solution is ever provided (and might lead the children to wonder if the teacher has worked it through...).

I grabbed the Y4 teacher's set of similar problems the other week and worked through them, just because I like doing them. Even amongst the staff we were able to learn something from how the other teachers approached the problems.

That's a good point, I've sometimes explained a quicker way of doing something where DD had a more laborious but correct answer. This term they had her neatly write up one of her strategies up and then explain it in school, so they apparently do some of that approach sharing.

On that topic, one almost-rule I see for children's maths question is when faced with a faffy calculation e.g. a slightly evil decimal multiplication, then you should try converting a decimal to a fraction e.g. 3.125 x 128 is better as (mental maths) 25/8 x 128 = 25 x 16 = 400. Especially now we have no calculators in 2014 KS2 SATs.

Apart from happy/sad, my concern in the OP's shoes would be how influential this is on school choosing children for L6, because some parents could make their children look very shiny when they're actually a bit dull, so to speak.