KS2 Progress

[CloverkissSparklecheeks]

I just wondered what is considered normal/expected progress from Y3 onwards.

I have googled KS2 NC levels but it seems that there is quite a large scale of what is expected in each year ie a 3b is an expected level for end Y3 through to beginning of Y5 according to some charts.

How many sub levels progress would you expect a child to make each year?

Thanks all.

In our school target is each child to make 2 or more sub levels a year. This is regardless of ability or their starting point.

• the target

I see, so less than at KS1, I was a bit confused and my friend insisted it goes in Years (ie L3 = Y3). I knew this wasn't the case but I wasn't sure of how it worked to explain properly to her.

Do you know if this is a national expectation or individual to the school?

This websit will show whether your child's school is progressing as it should.

dashboard.ofsted.gov.uk/

Thanks ReallyTired, it was more individual progress I was looking at, KS1 was 3 sub levels (I think) but I am under the impression that it is not expected that children make 3 sub levels progress a year.

I can ask the teacher but I am not around at drop off/pick up much so I knew MN would know

The website is very interesting, the primary schools in our area come out very well but interestingly the secondary schools don't!

I think that's pretty standard. Children need to move at least 2 levels across ks2. That's a national expectation. If they start at 2b (ks1 sats) they would be expected to achieve 4b or above by the end of year 6.

Your friend is Wrong. Ask the teacher when you can but I expect 2 sub level plus is the norm.

2 sublevels is expected in my school, more for some children.

That makes more senses otherwise a 5b would be average/expected which is what I was trying to tell her. She was insistent that they got an A, B or C within each year so in Y2 a 2A is the highest you can get etc.

Thanks all, I will speak to the teacher as we have had some issues at infant school with the NC levels not being truly reflective so I want to make sure I keep on top of what is happening IYSWIM.

Hi Cloverkiss...

Mumsnet have some information on expected progress through NC Levels here: www.mumsnet.com/learning/assessment/progress-through-national-curriculum-levels

The tables at the bottom help explain how this works - and the last table is what notionally a typical (or as MN terms it 'average') child achieves.

This finishes with a child achieving NC L4A by end Y6.

Now a 4c, 4b or 4a (if you don't know 'c' sub-level is lowest with 'a' sub-level highest) will all be scored as NC Level 4 on the publically available data from schools for Y2 SATs - so in some ways it is very hard to determine if a school is just barely getting pupils to a 4c or many pupils narrowly missed a 5c and therefore scored 4a. And let's be honest there is quite a difference in a pupil just barely working to 4c and one working just about to a 5c.

However, some schools will communicate Level & sub-level to parents (at parent/ teacher meetings, etc...) and you can therefore gauge your child's progress against the MN table of the notional 'average' pupil.

Finally - like everything else - children don't develop at a uniform rate - so do see the MN table of notional progress as a guide of what is typical, rather than what will definitely occur for your child. It's useful if your child is slightly behind (as my DD1 is) and can be reassuring if your child is working at a similar level or slightly ahead.

If it helps you to understand what is involved at these different levels - here is a link to past KS2 SATs papers (www.satstestsonline.co.uk/sto_past_papers.aspx - this includes test booklets & answers (termed 'mark scheme') - some will show the thresholds (what NC Levels scores equate to) - if not just type in Level Thresholds KS2 English/ Math SATs and year and you'll get the information: so for example I typed this in for the 2010 Maths paper and got: www.maths.com/uk/key-stage-2/past-papers/year-2010/2010%20Key%20Stage%202%20Maths%20Level%20Thresholds.pdf

HTH

HTH

There is no expected progress on a 'yearly' basis as children do not tend to develop in a linear fashion.
Expected progress is 2 full levels per key stage.
So level 2 expected end of yr2
level 4 expected end of yr 6
level 6 expected end of yr 9

These are 'expected' levels rather than 'average' levels, and also 'expected' progress.

(So for example, only 80% of children gaining a level 5 in yr 6 will go on to get an A/B grade in their GCSE.)

That is really helpful thank you. I know NC levels isn't the most important thing at this stage (Y3) but the last school said that DS1 was on the same level for 18 months and came up with various reasons why. I don't think it was actually true and things seem a lot better at the new school but I feel I let him down a bit as I was not 100% of what should be happening.

I am surprised that the sub levels aren't published as I would imagine there could be a huge difference in expected GCSE results for a child going into KS3 as a 4c and one as a 4a.

yup, that'd be DS1 in the 20%

Thanks LittleMiss, I think I am only worried due to past experience, I have a lot of faith in DSs new school and things seem to be going well so far.

Our school sets aspirational targets of 3 sub levels per year.

It probably doesn't help, but DS1 was a level 3 from yr2 to beginning of yr6, I was starting to worry. The school were saying "Don't worry, because we can see a change in attitude to how he attempts the work". Then it all clicked for him and he went on to get level 5s across the board in yr6.

lljkk - do you think that is because the reporting as just a L4/5/6 and not using sub levels means that it would be likely that less children will achieve the higher GCSE results?

LittleMiss - if you trust the school then I guess it is fine as long as they feel he is progressing etc, it is hard to put your full trust in schools after bad experiences though. It is reassuring to know that it is not necessarily important they are going up the levels in a regular fashion though.

Hi Cloverkiss & LittleMissGreen:

I think LittleMissGreen has raised some great points and apologise if by using 'expected' I implied - your child MUST be doing X NC Level by end of a certain school year.

I do very much mean that the MN table is what is NOTIONALLY expected - i.e. what typically should be achieved - but again and as LittleMissGreen has said was the case for her own child - each child is different and progress in education is never a steady, linear thing.

I did however mean 'expected' in the sense of DD1 was NC 1 at end of Y2 - so below expected progress. Our school was loath to discuss this result with me or give me advice on what we could be doing at home. They just kind of left it to us - and thus my rather 'jaded' view of the teaching profession.

MN's 'notional average child's progress' was tremendously helpful in helping me to realise there was a problem and motivate me to find out more about what I could do. I have to say that advice here from teachers & parents has been invaluable in turning the tide. MN

DD1 is a solid NC Level 5 these days and they will be putting her forward for L6 in maths, which I'm particularly proud of because we've very clearly achieved that at home & through an on-line tutorial which worked for us.

HTH

That is amazing PastSellByDate. It has only been a term at the new school and I think I can see a large amount of progress so I am hopeful they are on top of things.

This has been really useful thank you all.

No the expected is more for the teachers!!! Little miss, we all know children develop at different rates but on school if children in our classes make 1 sub level or no progress we would have to account for why. If many children in class did this we would have serious questions to answer!!!!

Actually most children do achieve this most years, where they don't its often explicable. If children have made no progress by the author. Term pupil progress meeting (just had ours) we would need to explain to the head what interventions we are putting in place to ensure they still make 2 sub levels plus.

• autumn term not author

Didn't mean the parents shouldn't know about expected levels, I meant that the pressure is not on children to reach that no matter what, it's for the teachers to get them there...

Pastsellbydate- understand you e had bad experience but don't tar the whole profession with the same brush eh?

NO, sorry, Clover, nothing to do with reporting bias or poor resolution. DS1 is underachieving because he's a moody mardy lazy spotty teen.

Oop - sorry lljkk, I am dreading the teenage years, I was exactly the same but scraped through luckily. It is very hard to get teenagers to understand the importance of it all!

DC1 is the massive underachiever; DC2 is hyper over achiever. I practice schizophrenic parenting between 2 of them. (sigh)