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Missing break/lunchtime

7 replies

Nicknamechanger13 · 29/11/2013 07:37

Feels like an am I being unreasonable?

My dcs are in Year 6 and this year the school's approach seems to have changed. Children lose their break time for forgetting homework, parents not signing homework diary, not pushing their chair in, not making sufficient progress in their spelling and times tables test, forgetting their PE gear and I'm sure there are other things. And recently if they've done well in a spelling test they are given another over break - I have a feeling this extra spelling is Sats driven.
If they haven't finished work they miss break and/or lunch play and this is not necessarily as a result of messing around....

Dd is a very conscientious child and is becoming increasing anxious about the constant threat of punishment. She became extremely stressed by her performance in the time tables tests - even though she was the first in the class to achieve full marks, I see her going the same way with the spellings, if her performance drops she'll lose break time where she'll spend the time learning them again.

She has started to talk about not wanting to go to school, she has come home twice this week feeling really down, which isn't like her.

I have requested a chat with her teacher, it looks to me like they are not following the discipline code...a child seems to lose their break for very little.

Do children not need break? I know the school are keen to prepare the kids for secondary but at secondary they follow their discipline code - kids get proper warnings and surely next year is time enough for this approach?

So are the school being OTT or am I being precious.

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TwerkingNineToFive · 29/11/2013 07:40

It's sounds extremely ott. Punishment doesn't work for this sort of stuff anyway it just make kids hate the whole thing IME.
I'd have a word with the teacher maybe the way your daughters representing it isn't accurate.

Gileswithachainsaw · 29/11/2013 07:53

Doesn't sound right at all. Behaviour issues fine they do need to learn to listen and do as asked etc

But punishing a child for not making enough progress is just wrong. How is loosing break helping that? They need support and extra help not punishment. You can't punish a child for a lack of academic ability.

Nicknamechanger13 · 29/11/2013 08:01

Maybe she has picked up the wrong end of the the stick! And maybe the teacher can reassure her that she won't lose her break if she breaths the wrong way.
But I've already had to speak to DS's teacher about ds losing break time and lunchtime for failing to complete an art homework to a sufficient standard, he has pretty poor fine motor skills and was really upset to be told he couldn't draw to year 6 standard. Which makes me think the school believe in this approach for year 6.

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Nicknamechanger13 · 29/11/2013 08:06

The maths teacher said to me that's it's not a punishment - he keeps them in for break and makes them learn times tables because he feels the kids who aren't making progress aren't doing it at home. My dcs were first in the class to know all their tables but they still felt under threat, he told me the threat wasn't for them and had a quiet word with them but IMO they are still overly worried about forgetting them.

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cory · 29/11/2013 09:17

Dc's secondary school has a very similar approach to Nicknamechanger's maths teacher, basically the reasoning is:

if you don't do the work then you will fall behind and your prospects will suffer

if you won't do the work in lessons/at home, then you have to do it at the only other available time

For secondary, I think this approach is fine: if you play when you should be working you will have to work when you should be playing.

But it is a very clearly spelled out question of consequences, to children who are old enough to understand consequences, and in a case where it can be clearly shown that this is about their own interests.

Not petty punishment. I suspect this is why it works. And certainly if ds does manage to get through his GCSE's it will be because his teachers finally managed to drum into his head that procrastinating doesn't get you out of working; it just makes it longer and more tedious. #

But then ds is 13, not 10.

PastSellByDate · 29/11/2013 10:03

Hi Nicknamechanger

I think cory has raised some good points - the punishments as described seem more appropriate for secondary school, but to be fair to the school this is Y6 and if children are resistant to doing homework now odds are that will follow through for the secondary school.

Now stepping back a bit and using our school as an example....

About 7 years ago, under a different HT, homework and parents signing homework logs was normal. There usually was reading assigned, an assignment in writing usually related to the reading and a maths worksheet. Parents complained. 'Oh!' they wailed, 'This homework is depriving me of quality time with my children!' or 'This homework is causing fights at home!' etc... and teachers claimed they were having to spend 30 minutes per child (= 15 hrs) marking the 3 pieces of homework. (In reality they tended to mark a few thoroughly (say 10 each week - still 5 hours marking) and just rotate who they marked thoroughly so generally some detailed feedback was winding its way home.)

So since the new HT arrives and since Gove removed homework limits the quantity of homework & feedback have radically changed. First writing homework was occasional and then just dropped entirely. Then detailed feedback was dropped - parents were told that children were picked up on certain things made apparent in the homework within their day to day class work. Then 'homework' as a concept of x amount of time per week was dropped. Books stopped being regularly sent home after KS1 (school also argued too many books lost/ not returned). Math homework became erratic, even though they purchased an on-line system that marked it for teachers.

So let's see what has happened to the local senior school over the last 6 years. Why isn't this interesting. Local senior school 7 years ago was considered good and got good outcomes. Over the last six years their performance has taken a nose dive. Getting pupils to do homework is the main complaint from staff, coupled with a general feeling that the local primary schools aren't giving pupils a solid foundation (i.e. in skills like addition/ subtraction/ multiplication/ division skills sound & reading at chronological age with reasonable attempts at writing grammatically correct text).

And I fear that tide is most likely what this lone Y6 teacher is trying to turn back. He's trying to get every child in his class used to doing work, and really making an effort - not just putting any old thing down or rushing through.

Is it strict? Yes. Is it overly hard on a child with a physical disability (from what you described) yes - but then perhaps the teacher isn't properly aware (our school is ridiculous about not passing on that information from year to year - I have a friend that has to explain her daughter suffers from asthma every year and she's fed up with a first term incident in PE each year).

So although I get your moan - wow the teacher's getting really tough with his students and stressing out my child. He/ she has met you half-way by trying to explain that he's not exactly targetting your child.

Now the hard cold fact - and I don't mean to upset you - is the new standard for learning your x0 - x12 times tables is that by age 9 (Y3/Y4) you should solidly know all your times tables. So in fact Y5/ Y6 - really should be about moving on to ye olde long (now called short) multiplication/ division up to at least 3 digits. New national curriculum from 2014 is here: www.gov.uk/government/collections/national-curriculum - if you scroll down to the bottom you can see criteria for individual subjects including maths: www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-mathematics-programmes-of-study. I accept this doesn't apply to your child - but standards are getting tougher and the likelihood is that the GCSE's your child sits will be more challenging than previous years.

So yes the teacher is being tough - and no maybe he/ she isn't handling it as well as he/ she should. But is he trying to get his entire class to a level that ensures that can engage with senior school curriculum?

Is he trying to instill in them the importance of doing the work and keeping on track?

Is he trying to 'catch them up' to the standard they should be at at this point?

I kind of think he/she is and, therefore, although he/ she may not necessarily be handling it as well as you like - their heart is in the right place.

Our Y6 teacher isn't as extreme but is keeping children in at lunch if they forget more than 2 homeworks. He also calls their parents in - because he's twigged that more often than not the child simply isn't telling their parents there is homework.

Our Y6 teacher also is returning homeworks where clearly not a lot of effort went into it. There's a lot of moaning, but he and his TAs are going without lunch/ breaks themselves to work with these kids and also doing work before/ after school to help those who are seriously struggling to achieve NC Level 4 (especially in reading) trying to help them get to a point where they can go onto senior school and have a chance of doing reasonably o.k. (In effect they're making up for very poor performance of colleagues since Y3).

Sorry to write a novel - but there are a lot of people making similar complaints at our school and when you see their kids fueling up on coca-cola & crisps on the walk into school & then hear how they've been rowdy in class or don't pay attention or were so badly behaved the teacher sent them to another class or to the HT day after day - you do start to realise that getting these kids to engage and do the work is 'the problem'. I'm not sure how you crack this problem - and admit part of this just is hormones & pre-teens being pre-teens - but I commend your DC's teacher for trying.

HTH

Nicknamechanger13 · 29/11/2013 11:26

Thank you Cory and Past for your thoughtful posts. I am supportive of the teachers trying to get the best out of my 2 dcs, I am supportive on all homework....they always have it done...but what I am slightly concerned about is the use of break time for extended teaching sessions. I think kids need a break, if the teachers don't then that's their choice...but dd being sent to another teacher to do more tests over break doesn't sit easy with me - even if it is extended learning and they are giving up their break as well I'd rather they didn't. I think there's a fine line between pushing to get the best out of child and sending them over the edge. Dd is starting to crumble -never before has she refused to go to school, never before has she come home from school feeling down about how her day went. She's very worried about making a mistake, she doesn't need the heavy handed approach because she's a pleaser and genuinely tries her best, so the constant threats are having a huge effect on her - it's not helping her do better it's just making her very anxious and it's making me worry about her mental health. Sad

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