Why would there be an issue with an 'outstanding' school?

[MacMac123]

Hi, long term lurker and occasional poster!
Just a question.
Why do some people have issues when a school is said to be outstanding, as in it might not be? Ie, on another topic, someone has said 'and don't even get me started on 'outstanding' schools' as though that would be a debate in itself.
Why?
Are ofsted thought to not get things right? What would be problem/issue be!?

same thing just latest abbreviation

Have come back to so many responses! Just reading them all now!

To me, it would make no difference to me whether a school was outstanding or needing improvement. I would want to see what their attitude to statemented pupils is and how they put their words into action.

Great post sittinginthesun. To me this summarises the problems with the current Ofsted approach well. They are too concerned with progress made - which is of course an important factor, but not to the exclusion of everything else.

I am shocked by the posts about fiddling results by limiting the number of level 3s at KS1. That really makes a mockery of the whole system!

sitting, it seems clear to me from your description that the problem is not about the structure or the process, but about the governance - the subversion of the process by the wish of the organisation to please political masters.

The process and structure (and ever-changing nature of the structure) are also the problem, though. Schools run around trying to fulfil confusing sets of criteria that change from year to year - and they do it because parents are so very swayed by those ratings and numbers and they need the parents and children for funding. Possibly the best schools aren't the ones who fulfil every ever-changing idea but the ones that have a clear and sensible idea of how children need to be taught, how to achieve that, and who don't bother to try and adapt to an outside idea which often isn't even set up by someone who has ever taught or has any idea of how children learn. Those schools probably won't be rated outstanding but they may very well still be doing a good job and doing it with kindness and care.

FWIW my kids go to an Outstanding school (old and new assessment) I am very happy with it. The staff and pupils are proud of the accreditation and work hard to maintain it. Not all Outstanding schools are bad.....

How come it was inspected under the new regime idiuntno? I thought outstanding schools were just getting an annual review unless concerns triggered an inspection? Or have I got that muddled?

I don't think that's right Penguins. My DC's school is outstanding and is expecting an Ofsted inspection soon.

Well I am very confused after reading the Ofsted website (sorry on phone or would link). it impies just annual reviews of whether they should inspect. maybe that is only once you have an outstanding under the new regime.

Well I am very confused after reading the Ofsted website (sorry on phone or would link). it impies just annual reviews of whether they should inspect. maybe that is only once you have an outstanding under the new regime.

Schools are given 1-2 days notice.Early years settings have no notice. All schools should have no notice. See how the school/teachers operate on a day to day basis. I say this as a teacher and parent.

I can see that jussi. Except sometimes it just wouldn't be fair. I know a school which would have a crap report on that basis as they were inapected the week before Christmas. As it was they had two days to postpone the fun events until new year

Schools now get the call just before lunchtime and the inspector arrives at 8ish the following morning. That's not a huge amount of notice, certainly not enough to sort out last year's Year 6 SATS which is all they are interested in anyway

Someone asked me some interesting questions up thread but am on phone now - will come back tomorrow with my laptop and reply properly.

We caught our school out massaging the figures in Year 2 - dc went backwards, HT said the teacher in year 1 had made a recording error but only admitted it after we pressed - the recording error affected all my dc's friends. It was a horribly pushy arrogant school. Lots of parents complained to Ofsted but the report stated that parents were overwhelming positive - not true.

Am off to an open morning today at our local 'outstanding' primary. A lot of this is making me nervous.

I've read the report (will do again more closely now), what sort of things should I be looking out for in the report?

The area is very middle class and a bit isolated, so there is a very narrow social demographic (ie kids not travelling to the school from the more diverse parts of town as there are other schools nearer to them and easier to get to). If the school's intake isn't very mixed, what can I look out for to show they welcome all comers?

Ime the lack of social mixing in favour of a very middle class intake meant that staff got used to kids having everything they needed - from the expectation and insistence of home made nativity costumes, extreme adherence to school uniform, little sympathy for a child who forgot or didn't have something, the lack of whatever was frequently and publicly pointed at by the teacher, this made the more sensitive kids very anxious. Their pastoral care was in one word - shit! But how do you discover that kind of thing - Ofsted don't care, the Sats won't show it, the mummies won't admit it to an outsider and the school will never say they value rules, exam results and external appearances over kindness.

When we moved to a more mixed school the staff were more human, they expected at least one child not to have a roman costume made by parents and they had spares ready - same with swimming - they had spare hats goggles etc, they didn't expect all kids parent to be in the ball and humiliate the kids and they treated the kids and parents with more respect.

We are lucky in that our DC go to an 'outstanding' primary and grammar.
The grammar school has only just become outstanding and I have no compaints with this school .It is very very good.
The primary school has just had an inspection and (surprisingly to me) retained it's ofsted outstanding.The school is very small very caring very warm and fuzzy.It has a large proportion of children with health problems , behaviour problems and SENs as well as some very very bright children.
The head teacher is only about 12, the teaching assistants are rough middle aged women who she is frightened of and consequently they are out of control.2 of the 3 class teachers are really good but because of this have to spend a day a week sharing their expertise with other schools, and the third teacher is very stressy anf shouty and thick as too short planks.

haha two short planks (I am not too bright either!)

My local outstanding primary hasn't actually been inspected for 7 years.

Re-awakening this thread.
My head's children go to an 'outstanding' school whose past employee admitted they fiddle results in reception and KS1 for the benefit of value added scores.
They have JUST been inspected - first in six years. I am yet to learn of the outcome. It so happens a very good friend of mine teaches at the school (oddly, FS & KS1) and I am yet to speak to her regarding 'results fixing' and the inspection. I know already that if she admits it to be true, it certainly isn't a decision made by herself but by the SMT.

But ofsted must take more into consideration than results improvements between ks1 and 2?

They are data driven ... it's impossible to get good or outstanding if data doesn't back it up.

I wish I believe Ofsted looked beyond results, but the DDs primary went Good, Satisfactory, Good and the fall and rise were on DD1 and DD2's KS2 results.

Same, head, same teacher, very different DCs. No doubt similar social backgrounds on paper. In practice DD2's class were massively more confident and got the grades they deserved. Several if DD1s class didn't.

It's a small school with mixed classes. No statistician would assign significance to that sample size, but Ofsted do!