Any parents of summer borns in YR Y1 experiencing unfairness in access to curriculum?

[BromCavMum]

I would like to know if there are other parents out there whose summer born children are in YR or Y1 or even Y2 and are struggling a bit or put at a disadvantage by the pace/level of the curriculum? My DD turned 5 at the end of August. She started school last January with a brilliant attitude toward learning and I have seen her attitude become more and more deflated over the last several months.

She picked up on reading quickly but was only assessed as 'emerging' in literacy for YR. Today, she had 2 quizzes in school (yes--2 in one day). A 10 word spelling test and a math test. She had 20 seconds to complete 7 different equations. She got 4 out of 7 and was disappointed in herself. Although these equations were supplied to us a week ahead it seems to me to be a tough test for a 5 year old. The school is big on testing and streaming. But at this age, when development is a huge variable is this wise? When most of these kids in her class were her age they were not doing math at all and were barely reading. I feel my daughter is expected to work twice as hard to be considered half as good.

If there are other parents out there who have experienced this type of what I consider bordering on discrimination I would truly like to hear your experiences and maybe we can pool some advice on how to approach the schools with this problem.

It is very hard to constantly read on the news how summer born children are 20% less likely to go to university, be well adjusted at school, etc. I think we parents need to discuss how to look out for our young children, because the British education system does not seem up to the task (or interested in the problem).

I eagerly await hearing from you.

mrz - no I totally get that you don't do groups in your class.

I thought that your comment "I don't have any groups so don't need group names although I'm now tempted to go with Einstein/Newton/Galileo/Pythagoras/Darwin and see how parents order them in ability" was to do with (hypothetically) pretending that you did have groups with those names in order to confuse the parents, hence my comments.

I think that parents do get 'group angst' because the NC levels don't really mean much until you get used to them (by which time your child has moved past that stage anyway). Additional information like 'your DC is near the bottom of the class for reading, near the top for numeracy, and somewhere in the middle for writing' is easier to understand, however that's not usually how it's presented.

And yes I understand that every class is different and relative position will be affected by several factors. But parents aren't daft, they have often known many of the kids in the class since babyhood, and have a good idea of what the intake is like. And actually is there anything wrong with the teacher explaining things like 'this is an exceptionally bright year group, so for your summer-born DC to be in the middle means they are actually doing very well compared to national levels'.

If nobody told any of the children anything until they arrived in school and then left all learning up to individual children, then I'm sure the older and more able children would pick up more. But because all children are able to learn both inside and outside school that's not the case. In our class the children are mixed both in terms of ability and age. It isn't possible to tell who the most able are from their ages.

"I don't have any groups so don't need group names although I'm now tempted to go with Einstein/Newton/Galileo/Pythagoras/Darwin and see how parents order them in ability" the ability of the scientists NOT the children AquaCouldron I wish I hadn't made a flippant remark as you seem to want to find offence where none was intended[sigh]
Groups tell you nothing because the top group in one school (or even one class in the same school) could be the bottom group in another school.
and unfortunately parents are often shocked and upset to be told their top group child is on the SEN register in their new school.

I do find this discussion interesting, both as a teacher and a parent of 2 summer-born DDs.

DD1 is an August birthday and is in Y1. She is doing well so far. I have no idea which group she is in, or what book band she is at- the school seem to deliberately avoid anything where parents could get competitve. However, I do know that DD1's reading is good for her age and her writing/maths at least average.

What does concern me slightly is that she doesn't have the concentration of an (average) older child. I think she is finding it hard to keep up with Y1 expectations wrt quantity of work. I know that this could be a personality thing, but I can't help feeling that if she had been in reception this year, she would be a lot more ready for formal learning at the start of Y1.

"Groups tell you nothing because the top group in one school (or even one class in the same school) could be the bottom group in another school."

You really do seem to have a low opinion of parents' intellectual ability. Did you read my post? I made the point that I understand that every class is different and relative position will be affected by several factors.

"unfortunately parents are often shocked and upset to be told their top group child is on the SEN register in their new school"

I'm sure you're more than aware one doesn't preclude the other - I have a child on both. And when you're sitting there trying to give a potted history of your child's development to the paediatrician, yes it's helpful to be able to say things like 'well they were top of the class for maths but bottom for spelling', because your child's teacher isn't there beside you with a list of NC levels.

But surely that just bears out what mrz is saying. The paediatrician has no idea of the standards at your child's school - what's top of the class on one school might be only middling in another. An NC level (which you are given) would probably be more use to him/her.

I have two summer borns, dd coped ok but my ds was pretty immature even for a 4 year old - he suffered by his inability to concentrate...his feelings of failure at being told he couldn't listen repeatedly, success was not something he experienced often in infant school. It got better after that but I believe if we had been able to delay starting for a year his experience would have been much more positive.

Clam - yes, if they understand NC levels and you have remembered to bring that info along. And if you can give the additional information that within a comparable cohort in terms of school environment and local factors, your child excelled in one subject compared to another, that is surely also relevant information?

Yes AquaCouldron as a SENCO and the mother of a child with HFA I know a child can be very able and have SEN but I was thinking of a child who transferred into the school where a friend works. The parents had been told he was in the top group for everything only to be told by my friend that he was struggling in every area of the curriculum and would be receiving additional support in school. They were extremely shocked. As a SENCO I've had countless similar conversations with parents who were misled by the "top group" label.
If you read MN you will find numerous posts from parents who feel similarly let down.

Isn't it simpler and more useful to say below/slightly below /at/above national expectations for a child this age?

mrz FWIW at my son's school the science groups are:

Einstein
Newton
Darwin
Faraday

In that order (well, no one has said that is the order, but in a small school it's not that hard to work out. Not saying that's right, or I particularly care, but it's naive to presume otherwise)

More generally, it would have been really helpful in Reception to have been told that my son's handwriting was at the bottom of the class. First child, no real comparators as to what he should be able to do, no one said that it was actually dire until he moved into Yr 1 and the teacher showed us (anonymous) examples of other children's work for comparison and we were shocked how bad his handwriting was (and still is). If we had known he needed more support on this we would have helped him much much more to improve.

but you are ordering them based on your knowledge of pupils I'm interested in knowing how you would order them top to bottom as scientists only (forget children for a minute).

I confess when I first started teaching I had groups and they had names based on whatever topic we were studying at the time and naively didn't think parents would be trying to read something into those group names ... ( my last groups about 20 years ago were lions, giraffes, monkeys, elephants but I heard myself saying will the giraffes go and wash their hands and decided no more!)

Einstein/Newton/Galileo/Pythagoras/Darwin

Ok, I'll play - I'd say
Newton - the bottom - knocked out by an apple - not very clever!
Darwin one up from the bottom - skills still evolving
Then Galileo - gets to things in a round about way.
Pythagoras - right on the ball
Einstein at the top as everybody knows he was a genius

BromCavMum in your OP you say your DD "turned 5 at the end of August. She started school last January". Does that mean she missed half a year compared to the rest of the class who would have started in September.

Was this a school policy for all summer born children?

My DD is August too but started in the September along with everyone else and I haven't really spotted much difference in terms of educational ability (there is a huge difference height wise but that's about it).

I find this discussion very interesting! My DD is in a fairly small primary school with only one class per year. So a mixed group. It never even entered my mind that she might struggle being a summer borm (birthday end of July). And thankfully she hasn't. She absolutely loves school, takes great pride in everything she does and generally is quite mature! Its interesting that a few posts have said the 'top' set/group/tables are autumn borns. This is quite the opposite in my DDs class (yr 2) as all the top table are summer borns...July and August birthdays. It doesn't mean this will always be the case. Others will catch up...some may start to struggle. My DD is ahead of where she should be for reading and writing but definitely struggles with numeracy. She is just about managing to keep up with the 'top' set but it doesn't come naturally to her she really tried so hard. If at any point I think this is putting too much stress on her and her motivation slips then I would mention to her teacher.

There is an insane level of parent competiveness in my DD2's Y2 class. They've had to cover up the book boxes in the corridor to stop the mummy rubbernecking.

A toxic cocktail of pfbs, small town politics and social climbing must be driving the school nuts. The massive rush of parent observers helpers has completely dropped off to the point were they had to rush around to get the ratios for a school trip. As a bemused observer it's the parents that have typecast the other children rather than the teachers.

Luckily I have an older daughter who after a slow start but with lots of positive talk at home about the impotance of baby steps, enjoying the journey, practice, etc has strolled past and is working well at a high level.

DD2 is about to do the same, the teacher has seen past the dizzy curls and been moving her round the different maths tables to find the right fit. I know this will surprise many of the parents ranked the kids back in Y1 using book band, DH's job and the length of my roots.

MRZ is you need parent helpers announce your new groups for 'cognitive experimental writing' or some such nonsense and watch them line up to try and work it out.

I think parent helpers are fine, as long as they are not allowed to support in a year group their child is in [re listening to reading I mean].
Separates those who want to offer support to the school from the 'rubber neckers'.

I am a parent helper who helps in my DD's year group (not her class though) but this is because I have done her year group for 2years now and love yr1 the best

I also help out in yrs 2 and 5.

There is a lot of competitiveness in DD's year too although luckily it seems to have slacked off somewhat since reception.

But OP they have to set the children work at the level they are attaining now.They are not grouping children by their IQ or their potential, they are grouping purely on current level.
Do you think your DD is the first summer born child they have ever come across, don't you think it has occurred to the teachers that they are a lot younger than the september borns and for that reason alone will be more likely to be at the back of the pack ?

This sense of discrimination is in your imaginationI think.

Careful intitgrand. I made a similar point on Saturday and was accused of being hostile and venomous and told not to post again!

It is not about a sense of discrimination or distrusting teachers. Most parents understand the reason for grouping children by abilities. However it has a negative effects on children self confidence and expectation. Is it important to teachers? Even in MN alone you often read such such if your dcs are not in top groups or got level 4 / 5 by end of year 3/4/5 then s/he is not grammar school material etc etc. Especially if you live in gs dominated catchment area you can understand how worrying for parents knowing the top group kids are being streamed daily while middle and bottom kids are just gently getting along. I believe most parents are not competitive types however it may come across as if they are. Many parents are just worried. Especially most parents themselves are not in any teaching or educational professions it is difficult for them (us) to spot any short comings and support our dcs accordingly and appropriately. Also in this country most schools are not great at communicating with parents. Then of course it leads to another issue re private tuitions. I wish I can be relaxed about nc levels unfortunately for some there is a strict deadline for secondary school choices. Unfortunately for some it feels like it will be all or nothing by the end of year 6.

I'm a teacher and a parent and I don't understand the reason for grouping children by ability vkyyu

Mrz so are you saying you don't differentiate work at all then? Or are you saying you don't seat them in ability groups?

primalLass, We did do phased intakes in England for many years. Single September intakes were brought in across the board a couple of years ago or so, partly (I believe, someone correct me if I'm wrong) in response to parental request, in an attempt to level the playing field to younger children. Of course, some of them just aren't ready for school as the August-borns (and I have 2 myself) are only just 4 at that point.

Sorry am late to answer but I didn't mean phased intakes. Children start P1 here between 4.5 and 5.5, but all at the same time IYSWIM. And December/Jan/Feb born children who would be only 4.5 in the August can usually defer to the next year, not miss a year altogether.

So my son was in a P2/1 composite class, where one of the P2 boy's birthday was the same week as one of the P1 boys. Both 5 the same week but started school a year apart based on the parents' choice and school input.

intitgrand of course I differentiate what I'm saying I teach children who are all individuals with different needs and not groups who may have some similar needs based on ability