Help with understanding reading schemes that go beyond lime, particularly for able young readers.

[thegamesafoot]

DDs school reading scheme goes beyond lime to copper, topaz, ruby, emerald, sapphire & diamond.

I am interested to know how different the levels are from each other e.g. how big are the jumps regarding number of pages, amount of chapters, level of complexity etc.

Currently I am assuming it's different from KS1 in that these 6 bands spread over three years compared to KS1 which has 11 bands over 3 years (as an average). So am I right to expect the jumps between levels to be more significant? Does average progress mean moving up a book band every 6 months & if you've been through this how quickly did your DC actually progress through these bands?

What does the content tend to be like - I am imagining it is very much geared towards the ages in the year groups rather than able young readers? Has anyone experienced unsuitable content if their DC is an able young reader? How long did your DC spend reading their scheme book compared to reading their own books for pleasure?

I have done a fair bit of searching on MN but found very little info on these levels - presumably not many schools use them, so any information and experiences gratefully received!

DD (now y2) was free reading this time last year. Over the summer the school bought the higher levelled books in to the school. DD's teacher put her back on the reading scheme but she pretty much has free reign over the books. She tends to bring home anything from level 12-level 16 (the lower levels tend to be non fiction).

Tbh I think she can read and comprehend way beyond the expected level so I let her choose her own reading material (vetted by me first)

I was wondering if anyone would answer this at all (as I assume that schemes going beyond lime is just not that common) - so thank you.

Levels 12 - 16 makes me think your DD's scheme is ORT? Is there much difference between the level 12 and level 16 books - is there an obvious progression?

Thanks again.

My DD's school only goes up to stage 11 however they do have the odd treetops books mixed in with the free reading box.

I bought a set of treetops books ages ago for DS (v cheap from the book people stage 12-14).

Stage 12 treetops "Dads win Prizes" has 8 chapters and 55 pages.

Stage 13 treetops "The Revenge of Captain Blood" has 6 chapters and 55 pages (more words on the page than stage 12).

Stage 14 treetops "The Terrible Power of House Rabbit" has 7 chapters and 63 pages (print is smaller again).

Lots of schemes go beyond Lime
average progress has nothing to do with moving up book bands

By the sound of it,these are Big Cat books. Have a look at
collinsbigcat.com/big-cat-bookshelf/bands and the component chart for more information

Yes, we've had unsuitable content problems with those levels in KS1. Not just frightening, mock-horror fiction, but also non-fiction that was way outside her life experience. So they took her off the reading scheme and everyone was much happier.

Sorry Mrz I should have said I don't think many schools use the scheme books that go beyond lime.

Regarding average progress, if a child makes progress then surely they move up the book bands? Isn't there an average for that progress even if it doesn't apply to many indivual children?

I am wondering how DD may progress through the further levels as I don't think it will be the same as before (roughly 1 book band a month until white, then school holidays, & now on lime).

I am also concerned that she has access to books that are suitable content wise as she is on the sensitive side. Other parents experience would be helpful - although as I suspected not many have this experience (or they're keeping shtum ).

No thegamesafoot progress isn't about moving up the book bands progress is developing knowledge and skills ...and beyond lime progress is about identifying and commenting on the structure and organisation of texts, including grammatical and presentational features at text level, explaining and commenting on writers' use of language, including grammatical and literary features at word and sentence level, identifying and commenting on writers' purposes and viewpoints, and the overall effect of the text on the reader
and the ability to relate texts to their social, cultural and historical traditions. not about book bands

What year is your DD in?

The treetops ones mentioned are not scary and DD has read them all (she is 5 although not sensitive in the slightest, but DS was).

She also reads stage 12 on bug club which I think are the big cat books. She gets stage 11 from school.

DD flew through all the stages in reception (although could read well before starting school) but once she got to stage 10, the HT thought it would benefit her to read something other than scheme books which she did for a term as she was not mature enough to be on lime. She is on lime now and can easily read stage 14 however she is not mature enough (nor has enough life experience) to "get" all the inference.

Bug Club are published by Pearsons and Big Cat are published by Collins

I forget which book it was she has read a few on bug club although a lot of them were non fiction, one about volcanoes IIRC.

Bug club is great though, when the child has to answer comprehension type questions. Pity it does not work on an iPad though.

DD1 has finished lime but is in Yr1 so is allowed to read her own books now. I assume once she goes into Yr2 if they have harder reading level books they will give her those at an appropriate level. by providing her own books though at least they are all appropriate content for her. She isn't reading harder books, I would say most of what she needs is white or lime but she is only little and still likes a lot of the easier books with nice colour pictures. Her teacher doesn't mind because she is reading a wide range of stuff that she has chosen. So one week she might read Magic Molly or something like that and a couple of short picture books and another she might read a long picture story book, an early reader, a non fiction book and some poetry.

Yes we've had problems with DD choosing books that aren't really suitable. At our school, children become 'free readers' after lime level and can choose anything to read by themselves. Problem is, DD is only just 6 and has been bringing back books like Diary of a Wimpy Kid and some Jacqueline Wilson's which are great - but just not suitable for her age.

I wish our school did continue to use a reading scheme in some ways as it would also help to monitor progress.

Mrz - where did I say that progress was about moving up the book bands? I thought I was fairly clear that moving up the book bands is a consequence of progress "if a child makes progress then surely they move up the book band levels". What exactly did you think I meant by the word progress?

In any case the progress you refer to applies equally to the lower book bands, given that each book band has been equated to an NC level and a range of skills and knowledge apply to each book band, including some of the higher level ones starting to kick in around gold/white level. Some of the knowledge and skills you refer to are what I imagine are required towards the end of KS2 (though what do I know - after all I was only here trying to find out). Frankly I am left wondering if there is not a good dollop of condescension in your post.

In practice I am sure that many children are reading book band levels higher than their NC level - if you feel that the NC levels attributed to book bands are meaningless or inaccurate then fair enough, but that is a different argument.

Simpson DD is in yr 1, and 5.5 next month. She enjoys reading all of her lime books, although we've sent one book home for being too scary (evil trainers that come to life and eat things!).

In my experience the Big Cat books are easiest, then the ORT 11/12s and the hardest are the Ginn Lighthouse books, although they are all levelled lime. These 3 schemes provide plenty of variety.

Is the Bug Club through school or a personal subscription, or is it free like the ORT ebooks?

Periwinkle that seems like a fine approach, although currently DD would read Rainbow Fairies all the time if she didn't have her scheme books. I have no particular issue with DD progressing up through the additional levels (she actually really likes the scheme books) unless, of course, the content is unsuitable. This is why I want to have some idea of how quickly this could happen, given that up til now she's whizzed up the bands.

Ha ha, we have had the evil trainers book too! My DD is a bit older (6 in Jan)

Bug club is something that goes through the school, we get a password and user name. Not sure if you can do it on your own iyswim. But you would certainly have to pay for it, although have you checked out the Oxford owl website?

Luckily we have passed through the Rainbow Fairy stage. DD is very into Judy Blume's Fudge books atm (to the point where she has refused all her school books this week, usually I can persuade her to give one of them a go).

All DD has had school wise is ORT stage 11 mixed in with some reading recovery books levelled by the school at lime. She gets to choose a book from the KS2 library too (usually non fiction and totally unsuitable ie a book about the army in which I had to explain war, nazis, holocaust etc before I gave up!) but she did have one which was fab about toys in the past and how school classrooms are different to olden days (she is very taken with history lessons).

Forgot to say in regard to your comment about NC levels and reading, I think the issue can be for young good readers is that the writing is not up to the same standard (I know DD can answer questions easily verbally but would not want to write it all down as she is still only 5) which can feel like it's holding them back iyswim.

DD is reading books levelled at a 3B NC wise, but she is most definitely not this level because her writing is not up to that level.

"Mrz - where did I say that progress was about moving up the book bands? I thought I was fairly clear that moving up the book bands is a consequence of progress "if a child makes progress then surely they move up the book band levels". What exactly did you think I meant by the word progress?"

Making progress doesn't automatically mean a child will move up the book bands in fact the teacher may decide to move a child down the bands in order to teach and consolidate the higher order skills ... book bands are a very general guide not an indication of progress as some appear to believe. We no longer use book bands.