**Primary teachers**

[sarahhal]

Just a quick question and wonder if any of you could help me! I'm a secondary languages teacher and would really like to move into primary teaching. The introduction of MFL at KS1 and 2 seemed ideal for a career change, but there doesn't seem to be much happening out there! Someone has suggested to me that schools would rather train their primary teachers in languages rather than take on a language specialist. What's happening in your schools? Any info would be much appreciated.

Get.. me..away..from...14..year..old...teenagers ...NOW !!!

Sarahhal, what is happening in SE London is that Teaching Assistants are being recruited to offer these classes. A friend in Essex is working for buttons two days a week on a TA pay to do this even though she is a highly experienced secondary MFL teacher like you (luckily it suits her family circumstances).
The prospect of some teaching training colleges offering a PGCE in MFL for Ks1 and 2 evaporated, alas. Am a MFL graduate who might well have retrained as a teacher if this was an option, I am actually that once again MFL is being devalued and downgraded as a "proper" subject. If you can teach French to 7 year olds in this manner...why not maths, or English?

Marina! How can we ever raise the profile of languages if from such an early age children are taught by non specialists. TAs do a brilliant job, but as you say, English and maths would never be taught this way.

Some colleges are offering primary PGCE in languages but not sure that re training is an option for me!

I have to say this was one of the reasons we went independent in the end sarah. Ds gets an age-appropriate French lesson once a week from a peripatetic fully-qualified teacher, and that will rise to twice a week in Yr 5.
It makes me sick. And it's a downward spiral - less exposure to MFL means fewer A level candidates and departments closing down.

I for one would not want to teach French to teens either, and I salute you for having held out for so long

Sorry, it's Marina gone codgerly

Have to admit if a position came up in the independent sector i'd be after it in a shot! It's frustating as quite a few came up last year but that was just as I was about to go on maternity leave.

MFL is just a joke in this country, the strategy is just completely to pot. I always assumed that I couldn't teach German MFL because I am not "bilingual" (though have a 2:1 degree). I was taught French and German by teachers who spoke them as their mother tongue.

I was shocked to discover teachers in secondary teaching a language to A level, that they only had A level in themselves! Or even lower standards for KS3 classes. And what is the point of a primary strategy if it means non-specialists 'teaching' kids for half an hour a week to say "Bonn-Joo-Er".

I don't know any primaries that are employing languages specialists yet.

I was impressed that our primary school is doing Spanish - until I overheard the head teacher who takes the top class studying it admit to another mum that she "hasn?t a clue" and swots up the night before!! Great.
I feel the same way about performing arts being taught badly in primary schools. Was always disgusted with the way children came up to secondary with such bad habits learnt, wrongly named percussion as the teachers didn?t know so made it up - beaters called "bangers" etc etc Makes me furious as it belittle the subjects as well as encouraging bad habits or worse, puts the children off altogether.
Sounds like the primary schools could all do with a sarahhal or Marina in there sorting them out

DS's primary has just employed a qualified French and Spanish teacher to do classes with reception, yr 1,2 and 3.
But the teacher isn't employed f/t as yet - she is in fact a 2ndry MFL teacher who gave up her job to be a SAHM and is now branching out.
The parents are chuffed, and the children are progressing really well.

Sounds like your borough at least have this sussed Blu. I do hope the school is paying her a pro-rata teacher's salary though, and not getting her on the cheap at TA rates.
And what you say about people swotting up on their Spanish the night before sounds chilling and plausible BagelBird. They just would not be allowed to get away with this approach in "key" subjects. I did hear that many schools were opting primarily for Spanish because it is "easier to learn". (Easier to busk your way through it more like ).
I get all parpy over this topic. I did not realise this was such a problem for perf arts too BB - we are lucky again to have a subject specialist who teaches musicianship once a week and singing once a week to children from nursery upwards. Very lucky I know.

I MUST change my name back. I keep seeing my posts and thinking "who is that?"

I think it's the individual head, Perc. But yes, she is getting a good hourly rate, I believe. (she runs a French club at her house after school - I look after her baby - aaaaaaah! - while ds learns french. Fab!)

Dd's private primary school have always had specialist language teachers but they use La Jolie Ronde with nursery and pre-prep.

My friend runs a local La Jolie Ronde franchise and lots of local primaries are getting them in on a peripatetic basis.

non teacher here .....what does mfl stand for?

Modern Foreign Languages

I wondered if the La Jolie Ronde would mop up on this front julie...makes good sense. At least these people definitely already speak the language and already have experience of teaching it to small children.

cat64 - had thought of that idea. Was meant to be my maternity leave project

Need to give myself a kick up the backside and really go for it if I really want to to it.

Watch this space!!

Had a note in ds's newsletter (state faith school) that children are now taught French from year 3 to year 6 and there will be a 'French Day' next week - children can dress up as French children to acknowledge this.

There is an option to sign up for after school French classes from Reception but tbh I think it is too much after a full day at school when they are so young. I personally studied French for 5 years most days and can barely remember any.

I can see why schools might rather train their existing primary school teachers in languages rather than take on a language specialist. The best way to learn a language is through using it in your daily life rather than just in language lessons. A primary teacher who is with the class for almost every lesson would be able to reinforce the language while teaching other subjects. I think I read somewhere (but can't find anything immediately to substantiate this, so correct me if I'm wrong) that Scandinavian countries adopt more of an "immersion" approach to teaching languages in which all lessons including Maths and Science would be conducted in the language for a period. I presume that would mean more teaching by non-specialists (surely not all Scandinavian maths teachers have language degrees?), but they seem to be more successful at language teaching than we are. My grandfather was a shipping company representative in Eastern Europe between the wars. His language training consisted of the company sending him off to live in villages in Poland and Czechoslovakia.

I don't know where you are, sarahhal, but many primary schools in London would be able to find a teaching assistant who is a native speaker of French or Spanish; why would they want to take on a modern language graduate who would expect more money? (I realise that is put a little bluntly, but you would have to convince the schools of your unique selling point).

What's happening in my daughter's primary school is they needed a new class teacher and the one they employed is a French graduate (tho an English person if you know what I mean) so I don't suppose it was a coincidence they took her on. She has her own class but teaches French to the other classes.

However...in practice if there are other things to do, trips, projects. play rehearsals etc it seems to be French that is dropped that week. Pity because dd is really enjoying it.

I spoke to the languages advisor for my LEA this week and she confirmed that they will be training the primary teachers and not taking on language specialists. Only suggestion was to retrain with one of the new primary MFL courses.

However..... a neighbour of ours is a governor at our village school and said she's been discussing languages and me with headteacher who said to send in a letter and CV. So, that's something to go for!

Depends where you are though Hallgerda . Equally there are a lot of London suburbs where unfortunately native or fluent speakers of such languages are in very short supply.
Our TAs and teachers are all fab but none of them have French or Spanish to anything like an appropriate level.
Immersion is a great idea but not if the whole lesson is being conducted in a halting, poorly accented fashion, surely. I was aware by 12 that my French teacher's refained suburban accent was going to get me nowhere fast in the country itself, you HAVE to be taught by someone credible to take a language seriously.
It all goes back as you say to the fact that a Scandinavian maths teacher probably is fluent in English without having studied it past 16.
I so hoped the introduction of MFL at KS1 in Britain at last meant a real national effort to turn around our sneering attitude to speaking at least one MFL language well. But instead it is being bodged. Of course lots of excellent graduates and TAs will be recruited but without a concerted national effort there are going to be lots of areas where the bare minimum is done.

Good luck sarahhal
Ds got a glowing report for French yesterday and says he'd like to do more languages when he's older. That's mah boy!