How to encourage school/teacher to try Level 6 reading?

[Au79]

Hi

The school has acknowledged dd now year 6 was already easily level 5a last year in year 5 but they got zero level 6s for anything but maths last year.

They spend most of their time focused on SATS at this school and I don't want her to spend the whole year doing the same level work. She loves literacy above all at school and home. I think they only tried level 6 maths not any literacy ones.

Please no debate about how rotten SATS are in this thread, but has any parent succeeded in helping the school achieve and aspire to up their level for high ability end kids? Any teachers, what would you like to see from the parents to support you?

I wish you luck!

My dd just started yr 5. She set the top score in her year group for the optional SAT reading test in yr 4 at her "outstanding" primary. I have little expectation that they will consider sitting her for level 6 reading next year or teach her to that level. Of course, I wish they would, but I'd bet the mortgage that they won't even consider it.

Why do I think this? At our "outstanding" school, no one has ever taken the level 6 Reading test. Nationally very few children pass this test. (Statistically, I think it rounds down to 0%.) Our school does no setting/streaming, whatever you want to call it, in literacy, so teaching level 6 to a few kids and teaching level 3 to a few others with the whole range in between in a class of 30 is probably not realistic, despite all the guff about differentiation. Finally, I've read the school news letter with articles written by one of the most respected year 6 teachers, and was shocked by the quality of the writing. My husband initially thought one of the children had made a good effort writing it. Er, no that was written by the teacher!

In our case, the school could never be "encouraged" into it. I could be very aggressive and demanding, and I might force them into it, but I think it would do more harm than good. The upset, defensive position I would cause, and frustration just wouldn't be worth it.

The only way I can imagine our school coming round to the idea, is from pressure coming from above to sit more children for level 6s. In that case they would suddenly be keen to scoop up my dd and a few others and push them forward. For us the best thing is to just keep providing her with books she likes to read and trying to ask "dinner table questions" that get her thinking.

I realise this isn't an answer to your question. I just wanted to empathise, since I cannot offer more.

Thanks anyway and my empathy in return!!!

I have a very able Yr6 and to be honest I don't want her to do L6 reading - it requires a very mechanical and analytical form of reading that presupposes a level of maturity befitting a much older child, and I feel that coaching her for it would 1) not benefit her because I am not at all sure it is her natural level in every aspect of her reading and 2) take the fun out of reading for her.

I've had a lot of success with nudging my older DD1 towards more challenging books and talking to her about them rather than pushing her towards more formal school work - she is now in Yr8 and reaping the fruits, picking out the key themes of 'Animal Farm' and actually taking pleasure in doing background research and reading to support her arguments. Very able children will come to it in time, and it will be less of a slog when their emotional maturity has caught up with their academic ability.

The first question to ask is how would it benefit the child? Answer that first, before you do anything else.

I don't think teaching above level 4 in primary necessarily benefits the child.
Streaming in secondary is taken from the schools own tests and has nothing to do with SATS levels.
They are going to be scrapped soon anyway.

"Streaming in secondary is taken from the schools own tests and has nothing to do with SATS levels."

Not always true. You need to be careful about this.

What's with the hang-up about tests? It's just a handy measure.

If your child is truly able, an arbitrary test won't make them less or more so.

And what's with 'pushing'? It's not a race. Of course, we all need encouragement to reach our potential. But 'pushing' suggests it's the parents issue, not the child's.

DS is 5a/6c at the start of year 6 and bored by some of the work to the point of misery. Stretching him at this point isn't to be pushy; it's to keep him engaged, challenged and happy.

DD was a very comfortable level 5a in year 5 but didn't get the level 6 in year 6; I suspect it's a different way of thinking, and she would rather read interesting books aimed at 11 year olds than anything more 'grown up'. (though she did make an exception for Pride and Prejudice when very, very bored during the summer).

She did get the writing and SPAG level 6, but was miffed at not getting the extra playtime that the rest of the class got while she did yet-another-SATs paper.

morethan there is a big difference between L4 and L5, and some very able children are just ready to move on from L4 work - if they have the capacity to be a genuine L5, as in working consistently at that level, then they should be allowed to do so. Holding them back is just as bad as pushing them too hard.

Sid it isn't about the test at all - I just don't see the point in going for the test unless you think your child is working at a solid and consistent L6. My DD isn't, she just doesn't have the emotional maturity. She may very well get L6 in SPaG, writing and maths, but those test different things.

Pointy.

I appreciate that, both my ds got level 5s on leaving y6, my point was it didn't make any difference when they got to secondary.
Yes they should be working at a comfortable level for them, but to be stretched to a level beyond doesn't benefit the child imo.

It did make a difference to DD1, her school has been very good at differentiation - I think whether it matters or not depends hugely on what the secondary's philosophy for Yr7 is. L5 wasn't a stretch for DD1 and isn't for DD2, it's just where they were/are. DD1's target for end of Yr8 English is 7c and that is perfectly realistic because she was a solid 5a at the end of Yr6 and her school has been very good at building on that. I don't think it would have happened that way if her previous school had just settled for L4 - she would have had too much material to make up.

I think we're mostly on the same page in that we want our children not to be pushed beyond what is appropriate for their age, ability and maturity.

I know that the levels will be scrapped, but that is irrelevant to my dd who is in year 6 now, in a school that focuses on SATS. I'm worried she will have a very dull year 6. They don't have a great track record in differentiation but seem to be changing about a bit this year with several new teachers and year swaps. She doesn't need to be pushed into it by anyone, she actively wants harder work, not more of the same. If the school has the goal of getting any level 6 in any non-maths subject (they have only done the maths one before), she is the child who will happily do extra work to get there. We're fine if she doesn't pass, at least she will have learnt new things along the way.

How do I tell them I will/can assist?

Arrange a meeting and discuss the situation with her teacher, just as you have here?

For what it's worth, DD1 sat all the level 6 tests last year. She only passed the maths one, but I'm sure she would agree that it was worth entering the reading and SPAG tests as well. She was bored to distraction by the endless revision of stuff she already knew and the preparation for level 6 gave her something much more interesting to aim for.

My very able ds didn't get the level 6 reading last year -(and he's read all the Lord of the Rings for fun!) I thought the paper was very hard and required a level of subtlety and maturity that most 11 year olds don't have - even the very bright ones.

Year 6 is quite dull regardless od SATs

I think what matters is the 'thought proicess' in the school, not the test.

DS was in the first cohort for Level 6 tests. His teacher pounced on them with glee and said, effectively 'what fun, I can teach you new things ALL YEAR'. The school as a whole said 'well, do we know what L6 looks like?' and e.g. had a secondary maths teacher come in fortnightly to run fun extension maths sessions. They weren't in any way aimed at 'teaching children Level 6 work', but the Level 6 tests somehow gave the school license to say 'no, we're NOT going to revise, we're going to learn new stuff'.

And it's that idea that you want to sell to the school - not the test per se (though as a result of the thinking process DS / DD's scool gets many, many times the national average in terms of L6 across the board - reading, writing, SPaG and Maths: DD is currently predicted L6 in all, though her writing is slightly less secure). It's the idea that year 6 can be about exciting new learning, not about revisiting past learning over and over again.

I agree with pointyfangs. I'm a secondary English teacher. level 6 is very analytical and needs to be across a wider range of texts that aren't studied usually in primary school settings. it is great to, as pointyfangs suggests, talk with your DC about texts, not just fiction. what students tend to struggle with at secondary is high range of nonfiction they will be expected to explore.

level 6 needs to be able to explore the language and structure as well as effects.

My DD sat the level 6 reading paper last year but did not get it. I did not even know she was sitting it until after the event. According to DD she understood the text but not the questions, I would need to see the paper to see what she meant.

BTW, I think it is exactly right that very few 11 year olds pass the Level 6 reading test, as that kind of analysis and appreciation of texts is an extremely mature skill. HOWEVER, I don't think that any school should say 'we don't do the tests, or teach anyone any content over Level 5, because the test is hard to pass'. Every school should teach every child what they need to learn next - and if an artificial ceiling is put on that child's learning, that is wrong.

I would be quite happy with a school that said 'we won't do the level 6 tests BUT we will absolutely teach level 6 skills to any child for whom those are the next steps' - but would be very unhappy about a school that says 'we will neither teach nor test above Level 5' [and about one that says 'we will teach children who are NOT at level 6 how to pass a test at that level]

May I point out again that the numbers who get L6 are so small that virtually no school can make up sets just of L6-achievers?? DD knows who else got L6s; very few in her year group of 220. So achieving L6 really does matter F all for making up top sets.

I know this is unfair to OP as the decision was made 7 yrs ago, but did you decide this school on basis of high results? I mean, looking back, do you think you should have realised it was a SATs factory?

has any parent succeeded in helping the school achieve and aspire to up their level for high ability end kids?

Yes. Most of DD's happiness at school is about the social life, though. Academic rigour is just a bonus. Doubt that's what you wanted to hear. Her school didn't know anyone could take L6 until very end of March, so they must have been teaching to ability all along. I don't think there was anything I did to make that happen, though.

I agree with Teacher - our school differentiates well, which is great for the higher achievers, as they are happy to teach to whatever level the child is currently working at.

They are not, however, a SATS factory, (and Ofsted are not particularly happy with them!).

From my experience, they have no problem teaching level 6 and even 7 maths to year 5 children. And level 5/6 literacy to similar age group.

I wouldn't be worried in the slightest about the SATS themselves, but I would be concerned if they weren't differentiating.

Teacherwith2kids, that is what I am after, to avoid the artificial ceiling effect of too much focus on reaching a level without any regard for the steps along the way. I really feel for the primaries being expected to teach part of secondary level without much guidance and knowing most secondaries ignore their assessments anyway. That said, dd self-teaches a lot, she isn't just reading for pleasure somehow- it's as if she is dissecting books.

They clearly know about level 6 now since they put last year results in the newsletter- several got it for maths and zero for reading writing and spag-but I think they didn't sit those tests.

I guess I'll never know what's going on inside the school, I guess it is a sats factory to a degree; oddly enough dd chose it aged 7-we had moved house and it was nearer, I was surprised she wanted to move but she has been happy in the stricter and more academically demanding (at that age) environment-she likes challenge in academic things. I didn't understand that ofsted outstanding could be had by schools that don't challenge kids in the final year. Maybe they won't be outstanding after the next inspection. I had gathered that ofsted was concerned about artificial ceilings now but maybe that's only for secondary.

I'll come to this as a parent with child who has SEN in literacy.

I would say approach the school. Say that as your DD is a 5a already you'd like them to consider putting her in for the level 6 paper. Ask what's the worst that can happen? She doesn't achieve it and gets a level 5? During the process she's learnt more skills and improved her own learning and also a level 5 is an excellent outcome anyway. As long as the school doesn't suffer any consequences for putting it for it and not getting it they should at least consider it.

My DS is only a 2b writer (year 5) and so there is talk that he won't even achieve a 4 (3b) at most. However as he's a 4c in maths they are also talking already about him doing the level 5 paper. Already started the process of applying for extra time due to his SN/SEN. I get all this by approaching the school and keeping lines of communication open.

I reckon you should meet with senco as their role is for all children with sen and being incredibly able comes under their remit.