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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

TA Taking the class

25 replies

Tinkerisdead · 14/10/2013 21:45

My dd has started in reception and one afternoon a week her teacher goes off to work elsewhere in the school and two TA's take the class for the afternoon. I know they do PE but im unsure if or what else.

Is this permitted? I'm not bothered because my dd is happy with it but i've looked extensively at training as a TA and when i made enquiries at the school the head told me that all her TAs were level 3. In the training etc that ive been looking at it states that only a HLTA can take a class. So more than any issue with my childs class if i trained as a TA which i'd be interested in is it likely i'd be required to run an afternoon etc alongside another TA or is it unusual?

I dont want to be accused of teacher bashing/workload pressures etc as i completely understand why they are being used but its contradicatory to the swatting up etc i'd done.

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SatinSandals · 14/10/2013 21:53

It is a money saving exercise, it costs a lot more to employ a teacher. Is she teaching elsewhere? It sounds like PPA time to me.

tinytalker · 14/10/2013 21:56

I am a TA but am a qualified teacher with 20yrs experience, I just happen to be working part time as a TA whilst my children are young. So if I had to take a class I would be well qualified to do so but the parents don't know my qualifications. What I'm saying is you would need to find out the TA's qualifications before making a complaint.

SatinSandals · 14/10/2013 22:00

Lots of teachers work as TAs because they don't want the workload.

lisad123everybodydancenow · 14/10/2013 22:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

grants1000 · 14/10/2013 22:07

They are perfectly capable, even if it is for PE! They are not morons, they know the class as well as the teacher. There is a lot of training and qualification to be a TA, not something that anyone can do overnight. You sound like you have a very uneducated bleak view of what a TA does and the crucial, pivotal role they play in children's lives in the classroom each day.

You make me want to suck air through my teeth

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee · 14/10/2013 22:11

grants100 did you even read the OP or just randomly go off on one?

grants1000 · 14/10/2013 22:18

OP 'not bothered' but wants to know if 'it's permitted' ie: are hey even allowed to be in the same room.

FYI - it's called personal opinion with a right to reply. What is yours? You don't seem to have one

BlueJess · 14/10/2013 22:19

grants100 that's interesting because I know someone who is a TA with no specific TA training. They are university educated but their degree is not related to teaching/early years care etc. My friend does take the class on occassion...

simpson · 14/10/2013 22:23

If its one afternoon a week it sounds like PPA time to me. The lesson will still have been planned by the teacher.

I am also training to be a TA and as far as I know you need to be a level 3 to be taking a whole class. But you would be following lesson plans that the teacher has set out.

2kidsintow · 14/10/2013 22:38

There's actually nothing in writing these days that the person taking the class needs to be qualified to teach. As long as the headteacher deems the person confident and capable, they can teach the class. And they can be asked to teach anything.

Hence the wealth of TAs and cover supervisors doing what teachers and supply teachers used to do.

Our PPA is covered by a HLTA and that's taking the mick enough in my opinion. Not that she isn't capable - she's excellent - but that she doesn't get paid anywhere near enough for doing what she's doing!

juniper9 · 14/10/2013 22:50

Our school gets TAs from an agency, and most of them are out of work actors who are looking for a few days' work that'll pay the bills. That's not to say they're all bad, but the vast majority have no experience or qualification relating to children.

TAs have been used as ppa cover for a very long time. They could now be used as class teachers permanently as Gove has removed the requirement for QTS. I was under the impression TAs couldn't cover PE due to the insurance issues- that's why I wasn't allowed to teach PE as a student unless the class teacher was also present.

As to the comment about TAs knowing the class as well as the class teacher, I'd disagree. The vast majority of TAs will not know the children's levels, targets and next steps. They probably won't know the intricacies of IEPs. They don't meet with parents in formal meetings to discuss the children, nor with SENCOs, the Head, whoever is in charge of data analysis etc.

BackforGood · 14/10/2013 22:59

Grants - surely you should be directing your anger at the school taking advantage of the TA - their pay scale is unlikely to be anything like what the teacher is earning, so they shouldn't be being asked to do the teacher's job. Teacher's are not supposed to do the planning for their PPA time.

Original poster

Tinkerisdead · 15/10/2013 06:57

Thankyou for all the lovely replies.

And Grants thats the first time since joining in 2006 that i've had hostility on Mumsnet over something where i actually stated Im not bothered by it, just that I'm really interested in becoming a TA. (ive actually started the level2 award rather than the certificate) whilst my youngest dd is at home and i cant commit to a placement for assessment. Hence I had made enquiries at the school and been told they were all level 3. Thankyou for such pointed anger when i clearly stated that it contradicted what i had read up on and that my daughter is very happy with it. My real concern was that if I trained as a PA that i wouldnt be comfortable to take a class so I wanted to know if it was likely. Suck all the air through your teeth you like....

To everyone else, thankyou, its quite possible that they could be teachers, saving money etc and I'm not about to complain.

OP posts:

stealthsquiggle · 15/10/2013 07:26

I know DC's school (independent, so even less "rules") have TAs in charge of classes on occasion - some well qualified, others less so but experienced, all working to a lesson plan from the teacher. One of the TA's is a neighbour, and I know she has a PGCE but regards working as a TA as teaching, but without all the hassle and paperwork and at a fraction of the salary , which suits her for the moment.

The school also have a selection of gap year students who do lots of escorting of DC, supervising games, sometimes supervising a class working on something they have been set, and generally acting as big brothers and sisters.

NynaevesSister · 15/10/2013 08:16

Our school uses HLTAs as cover for PPA, and after some horrible supply teachers (some fab too!) it was really nice to have that consistency. The HLTA covers PPA an if teacher needs time off for any reason, also sick days if it is possible (obv these can't be arranged in advance).

They get paid more than a TA but still have less responsibility than a teacher, and work TA hours.

Still I don't think that we pay teaching staff what they are worth or really cover the time staff put in.

soimpressed · 15/10/2013 09:13

I worry about the rise in TAs and cover supervisors taking classes. I can see the attraction for schools because they cost so much less than employing a teacher but is that really the point? As others have said teachers do not plan or mark work done in PPA so it would be down to the TA. I've worked with lots of fantastic TAs but only a few that I consider competent enough to teach the class.

I'm an experienced teacher and I've just started supply teaching. I get paid less than I did when I was a class teacher but then I don't have to work in the evenings or at the weekend. However, find the work quite demanding as I have to teach a variety of age groups and get up to speed with the plans/ children very quickly when I arrive. I worked all week in one class last week as the teacher was away. The class TA supported me in the class as she would have supported the teacher and she was able to continue her interventions in the afternoon. Together we got the children through a difficult week with the minimum of disruption to their education. Isn't that more important than saving money?

Sorry OP I know this isn't what you were asking about!

Original poster

Tinkerisdead · 15/10/2013 09:35

No no i'm glad of the insight, contrary to what other people thought my agenda was. I was keen to find out more about the whys and wherefores as to what the responsibilities of a TA could be in real life. Evidently it was contradictory to the training blurb I'd read.

OP posts:

moldingsunbeams · 15/10/2013 11:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cassgate · 15/10/2013 11:33

I am just about to embark on the QCF level 3 diploma in supporting teaching and learning with a view to becoming a teaching assistant. I will be volunteering in my childrens school for a couple of days a week to do this. Interestingly, this all came about because I applied for a full time ta role at the school. I didn't get the job but the head was impressed with me at interview and is willing to support me through the diploma. She is keen to replace existing tas when they leave with qualified teaching assistants as the ones that she inherited when she became head are not qualified and are not interested in becoming so. At the moment only the qualified HLTA covers lessons.

PastSellByDate · 15/10/2013 11:39

Hi DoctorsWife46

I would relax - DD1 in Y6 now and our experience has been that the TAs often are the better teachers (and most are fully qualified teachers - just have 'downshifted' to being a TA because of work/ life balance issues - often young family, but two TAs at our school have caring responsibilities for elderly parents as well).

Year R is largely learning through play and the teacher will have set out what is to be covered that day, which most likely can be effectively delivered by a TA.

If this is an afternoon - the likelihood is the TA would take PE (as you suggested), probably watch the children during break and then maybe do some form of wind-down activity (reading?/ singing?/ drawing?/ making something?) + get them ready to go at 3/ 3:30 - all of which is enjoyable for DCs and most likely well taught, even if by the TA.

HTH

SatinSandals · 15/10/2013 17:36

I can't see the use of having PPA time if you have to plan the work for a TA, a supply teacher plans and marks all the work.

sheridand · 15/10/2013 17:58

I'm another HLTA who is also QTS. I don't want to return to teaching FT yet, as my kids are still little. I love it. I deliver what has been planned if it's one -off cover, and plan myself if it's for more than 1 day or so. I also mark the work.

VivaLeThrustBadger · 15/10/2013 18:01

My brothers a TA and doesn't have any TA qualifications. He takes classes to cover for sickness, etc. he was telling me its quite funny as trainee teachers aren't allowed to (not sure if this is just his school, or due to the stage of training) but he can.

MissWimpyDimple · 15/10/2013 18:11

In our school most of the TAs are parents who started as helpers and then stayed on. Some of those have been there years though and their own children have all long left the school.

Having said that, they generally have no actual qualifications but are being encouraged to get them. The courses are paid for and done in school working time.

As far as I know, the TAs never actually take the class alone. Only groups or parts of the class.

mrz · 15/10/2013 18:24

Technically TAs can't teach a class but they can supervise VivaLeThrustBadger and student teachers can and most definitely can teach a class but they shouldn't be exploited as free supply cover in case of illness.

OP all teachers are entitled to PPA time (equates to 10% of their teaching timetable roughly one afternoon) and some schools use HLTAs to cover this

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