(state) school maths at odds with method required for 11+: what would you do? .

[thecatsmothercompany]

Our DS is in year 4 and we've begun to look at ways to prepare him for a possible 10+ exam in a year or so's time.

What's become quite clear to us is that the way kids are taught maths at (state) school does not prepare them AT ALL for taking (let alone passing) an entrance exam. There is no way the very slow, grid-based methods they are using at school will enable them to do complex calculations under time pressure.

The school openly acknowledges that their job is not to prepare kids for competitive examinations. The problem begins when the child starts using faster methods learnt at home, which are then deemed 'wrong' at school.

We can't be the only family in the country with kids in state schools preparing for the 10+ or 11+ so I'd love to hear how others have dealt with this.

Do you just tell your kids to apply different methods at home and at school? That's pretty confusing.

I'd love to have a more constructive conversation with the school about this, but don't know how to go about it.

Our primary teaches all the different methods, but at Y4 most of them hadn't learned the 'faster' ones eg column division

dd1 has learned them from her tutor (she had a term of maths tutoring at the start of Y4 for confidence, which was shaky) and knows how to use them - but if asked to use a particular method at school, will use that instead.

She doesn't seem to have any problem using different methods - at home and at school - so far. I know in Y6 (when they've seen all methods) they are allowed to pick the ones that work best for them, and that varies from child to child depending on aptitude for maths.

What does your ds say? Would he find it confusing to use one method at school, another at home?

DD1 has never done an entrance exam in her life, but point blank refuses to use the grid method.

"loads of pointless extra writing"

The only effective way of managing this is to teach the methods required for 11+ at home and expect your DC to differentiate technique at home and school.

And practice relaxation techniques to manage your justifiable frustration!

Dd has recently sat selective tests. Since year 5 she's been using whichever method for calculations that has suited her/the problem being solved.

The school has had no problem with this - as far as I can see, the whole point of teaching different methods throughout school is to equip children with a number of ways to solve a problem, recognising that some children will prefer a particular method. Working has to be shown (which irks ds in year 3 because he quite often just does stuff in his head).

It is true that state schools aren't teaching to tests taken at the beginning of year 6. We had dd tutored for 6 months in run up to the tests so that any gaps thrown up by some of the tests looking at knowledge to end of year 6 in the September of that academic year would be filled.

I really sympathise with you.

I have a DS in year 5, due to take 11+ next Sept. for the state Grammar (i.e. just into yr 6). 11+ a big deal in our area, due to unfortunate (but deserved, on past performance) sink school reputation of most other schools in area. Everyone panics, our primary school only half-acknowledges that there even is an 11+ exam. Everyone books tutors, to the extent that one of the most popular was booked up by the lunchtime of the day she started taking bookings.

Although DS loves maths and school recognises he is good at it, like you, I see him plodding through loads of 'consolidation' of work he mastered ages ago, and seemingly doing very little of the new stuff he will need in the 11+. A tutor I know has stated that a child needs to be confident about most of the yr. 6 syllabus, in order to stand a good chance of passing 11+. That just isn't going to happen at school (not DSs, anyway). V. frustrating, as I think he would be more than capable of working at a faster pace/higher level.

I'm afraid I'm relying on a tutor to plug any gaps left by the school. I know from past experience that school will never accept that 11+ is any of its concern, despite being a big feeder school. Sorry not to be more constructive, but the whole thing makes me . Good luck to your DS next year.

i am afraid that we have to let the children to get used to all the ways, it is quite confusing, I have to say. I am asking my DD1 to do complicated multiplication and she will ask me: "shall l use mummy's way or Tutor's way?(the way school will be teaching, so the tutor had spent sometime to get her used to it). " I really don't mind, if the child knows how to apply them, they will be able to use either way, but at the end they will use the way they prefer, usually the quickiest one.

Yes, you tell your kids to apply different ways at home and school.

Shouldn't be too confusing, as at school they will be asked to use different techniques to practice them as well.

In fact, doing it several different ways should help with understanding. Lots of techniques at school are about gaining a real sense of how and why an answer is correct, not just how to get that answer quickly.

Check with the school before telling your son to do one thing at home and something else at school. My local primary school does not treat the faster methods as wrong. They don't teach them but are quite happy for children to use them as long as they end up with the right answer.

Sorry - yes, actually what prh47bridge says. I was assuming a class where they were asked to use a certain technique (e.g. to show understanding) rather than choosing their own.

". The problem begins when the child starts using faster methods learnt at home, which are then deemed 'wrong' at school. "

This is the most worrying bit of your post. Does it actually happen or do you just think it might?

Having watched DD use some laborious method for division in Y3, I quickly taught her short division. I later mentioned that to Middling State Primary teacher and the response was an obviously well-rehearsed speech about how that was perfectly fine.

Parents were given very strict instructions by DS's old primary school not to teach them the methods they had learnt at primary school in the 70s/80s, but to stick to the 'new maths' taught in school.

Just a note about 'new maths', I'm a secondary maths teacher and we don't give a toss which of the methods a child uses for multiplication so long as they use it correctly and get the right answer.
I would personally steer away from the column method as children who use it regularly forget to add the zeros (really showing a lack of understanding of the method, if you think about it). IME the fastest method they are least likely to make mistakes on is Napier's. That doesn't need any understanding of multiplying large numbers though, so primary would do grid method first.

curlew, I think it will happen. DD1's tutor told me that she needs to get used to the partition? way on multiplicatin rather than the column way I taught her at home, otherwise" she will be sooooo confused in year 4."

DD2 told me she is not allowed to use column on addition and subtraction at all in class, only beads and number line.

I guess children are asked to use the way school teaches rather than choosing a quicker or preferred method.

I am accepting it now as there is no harm for children to learn more ways to solve the problem, at the end there is only one correct answer.

Thanks for the really encouraging comments. It is great to hear of others who have successfully explained why methods may differ at home and school - "There is no harm in learning more ways to solve the problem" - very wise!

Last year's teacher was rather rigid in her views, and stamped quite hard on our DS's experimentation with other methods and it knocked his confidence in, well, adults generally. "You can't even agree on MATHS" - a fair point, I suppose.

His new teacher seems a lot more friendly so we'll test the waters when we see her next.

Thanks, everyone!

Whilst I agree if a child can confidently do a written method then they should be allowed to use what works for them. However, the majority of methods taught early on are mental methods. Of course partitioning, counting on or chunking for division take longer but if children master them and understand the principles, then they can use them mentally. We discourage parents from teaching written methods early on as they can stop children from developing quick mental methods.

If a child understands the principals behind calculations, knowing several different methods shouldn't be too challenging for them.

If they struggle with two different methods or with the basic principles, perhaps they aren't really grammar school material.

Thanks Shouldhavedoneitsooner - I'd never heard the rationale (i.e. the focus on mental calculation) for the method used at school. The 'that's the way we do it' reason does not sound quite as compelling...

As for not being 'grammar school material' above. Well, what can I say? You Brits like pigeon-holing your young at an awfully early age, don't you?