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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Making children work for longer than adults in the workplace!

49 replies

dannyac · 08/10/2013 11:22

Hi all. My son started in year 1 in September and although school is not meant to start until 9 am, his classmates are generally sitting at tables doing spelling practice after drop off, perhaps from 8.30 in some cases.

I don't agree with this as many adults due to start work at 9 wouldn't choose to do so before then!

I try to take him in later but then he
feels that he is on the back foot in terms of settling in or even late bless him.

The head/class teacher is generally doing lesson prep so I wonder if this is just a convenient time-filler being sold as "beneficial for learning". I would rather they were all just running around the playground until it is time to go in like CHILDREN!

I have a meeting with the head on Thursday to discuss it and even suggest a rota of parents to patrol the playground if staffing is an issue.

Does anyone agree with me that working early is wrong?

OP posts:

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Madamecastafiore · 08/10/2013 11:26

You will have an issue with unemployed people (meaning not employed by the school) policing the playground and being responsible for children's welfare in loco parentis.

If the kids are happy doing it and it is the only way the school can provide pre school care then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

PatriciaHolm · 08/10/2013 11:35

They aren't working for longer than adults - how many adults work from 9-3?

I think you'll have little joy tbh as I would imagine its a very popular idea with working parents.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 08/10/2013 11:36

I don't even understand what you mean. Can you explain the circumstances a bit more fully?

Pooka · 08/10/2013 11:42

Nope. Wouldn't have a problem with that. If parents want their dcs to run around In the playground, then having staff in classrooms from 8.30 isn't stopping them from hanging around until formal start time to supervise their own kids time if they so wish.

noramum · 08/10/2013 11:50

My DD loves to read before school. If I would let her she would also do her math workbook.

As long as they also have the possibility to play around, chat and even stay outside if they want I can't see a problem.

Why would the parents want to patrol the playground? You won't get any parent to agree to be doing this. I am ok keeping one of DD's friends with me until the bell goes but that child knows me and it is a favour to the mum if she has to go to work early.

I work 7 hours plus 1 hour lunch break. That's a lot more than my DD is in school, especially if you deduct lunch and playtime breaks.

Original poster

dannyac · 08/10/2013 12:15

Thanks for your comments everybody. I will talk to the head about staffing/legal alternatives for playground supervision and if a no go, suggest alternatives to spelling like puzzles or something. I have asked some parents at other schools near me and children are dropped in the playground where they are supervised by support staff until the bell goes and I think that is the ideal really.

OP posts:

VinegarDrinker · 08/10/2013 12:19

Your title is ridiculously misleading

I would just drop your DC at start time or keep him in the playground with you supervising. If the teacher isn't making them do spellings then surely they could do whatever they like (colouring, reading, chatting or whatever)?

homebythesea · 08/10/2013 12:24

REALLY? You object to the children coming in to the classroom of a morning and looking at some spellings for a few minutes? REALLY?

Please don't do this.

You will be marked down as THAT parent

When something really important comes up re your childs schooling they will not take you seriously

my2bundles · 08/10/2013 12:26

This dosent happen at our school, all parents have to wait untill the children have lined up and have been taken into school by their teacher. I can see the benefits of your system. Working parents can get off earlier for work maybe eliminating the need to pay for childcare, a parent with a 9am appointment can drop at 8.30am and go knowing their child is safe. Those who dont want to drop early dont have to, they can allow their child to play outside untill the bell goes if they so wish. i see this system as win win for everybodys needs, I carnt see anyone backing you with this.

Pinkpinot · 08/10/2013 12:27

Really, you're going to talk to the head about this?
If the classroom is open and children want to go inside, you can't expect them to have free reign for 20-30 minutes, so they have to provide something for them.
If you get there early and you don't want them to go in, you supervise their play
Or you just take him at the time you want him to go in

Personally I think it takes them 10-15 minutes or so to get settled and ready for class
I wouldn't want to drop him at 2 minutes to 9 and expect him to start right on 9

Original poster

dannyac · 08/10/2013 12:28

Can I just say in closing, the point I am making is that the school day is really long for little children and I think we shouldn't let it last any longer than it absolutely has to, if we can find a way. They are only children ONCE.

OP posts:

VinegarDrinker · 08/10/2013 12:32

Many much younger children cope just fine with nursery days that are a lot longer than 9-3. I really don't see the hysteria. If you think that half an hour will ruin his childhood then send him at 9.

my2bundles · 08/10/2013 12:33

dannyac, 30 minutes isnt much to add on to their day. from what you have said it dosent sound like they are doing anything to hard. Its a flexible option, you can leave them in a safe classroom, you can let them play outside with your supervision or you can arrive at school for the official starting time. Why would you wish to begrudge some parents the opprotunity for a slightly earlier drop off? I think its good that your school are so flexible, most are not.

VinegarDrinker · 08/10/2013 12:35

Look at it like this then. If they are meant to practice their spellings every day, does it matter whether they do it for half an hour before school (in the classroom) or half an hour after school (at home)?

Pooka · 08/10/2013 12:36

I think you sound rather OTT.

Basically, you want your dcs out in the playground before school. As far as I can see no one is stopping you from letting your dc play before school, although you as the parent would be supervising your own child.

But your own dc is asking to go in earlier because thats what the other kids are doing?

So what you want is for all the other parents to do as you do and keep the dcs in the playground?

How is that fair?

The system you have seems excellent to me - parents who want their dcs to play before school can stay with their dcs. Parents who want, or have children who want, to send their dcs in earlier can, and then can go. Perfect - the choice is there.

VinegarDrinker · 08/10/2013 12:36

Urgh, I need to practise my own spellings.

my2bundles · 08/10/2013 12:41

I can also see how this must benefit those of us with more than one school age child within the same school. it would give us chance to drop each child individually to their teachers and time to discuss any concerns. Also those with younger or older children at different schools, it would free up time to safely drop them all at school at the correct times.

enjoyingscience · 08/10/2013 12:43

you do seem a little OTT - I can see that you don't want undue pressure on the children, but you say 'some' are there from 8:30, implying most arrive between 8:30-9:00. I don't think 15 or 20 minutes of spelling is going to ruin anyone's childhood.

School days are long, and some children are so tired at the end of the day that spelling practise is a huge punishment! Doing a bit in the morning when they are fresh is probably very helpful to many, and ensures a level playing field for those who find it tricky in the evening/have homes where practising isn't encoyraged etc. If you don't want your DS to do it, don't drop him early.

Floggingmolly · 08/10/2013 12:45

Don't send him in at 8.30 for a nine o'clock start if you want to choose how that 30 minutes is spent . And for pity's sake don't make an arse of yourself going in to complain about it; they'll probably post a guard on the gate and refuse to let your child pass until 8.59am that's what I'd do

slug · 08/10/2013 12:59

So your son enjoys school so much that he actually wants to get started early and you want to complain about this?

Lonecatwithkitten · 08/10/2013 13:15

Many schools are 8.30am to 4pm from year 1 so really this is a non-argument.

PastSellByDate · 08/10/2013 13:21

OK Dannyac

I get that you don't like formal school work starting before 9 a.m. - but I don't get how this is making children work longer hours than adults in the work place.

In year 1 your child should have two play breaks a day and a little over an hour for lunch & play. I suspect if this is a private school the day may extend to 5 p.m. but the afternoon might be filled with activities like sports or music, that help blow off a bit of steam. Our school (state) also has endless amounts of prayer (CofE) and learning hymns and seems to go in for lots of golden time/ video watching as well - which I'm pretty clear doesn't happen in any work place I've been in.

I think the question to ask yourself is whether this spelling session - which sounds informal - is optional?

If it's optional than dannyac the answer is simple - just arrive closer to 9 a.m. and don't join in.

However, dannyac - you also should consult your DS. He seems to want to join in (whether this is peer pressure or he enjoys the activity - I don't know) - so although you may not like it yourself (and trust me I don't like watching my daughter do flips on a balance beam or climbing walls - scares the life out of me)but if he enjoys it, shouldn't you consider supporting him in this (after all it sounds a worthwhile and relatively harmless activity).

HTH

DalmationDots · 08/10/2013 13:52

Things like children practicing their number bonds or writing for an extra 10 minutes each morning can make a huge difference to them mastering their maths and english basic skills and then they will go on and do much better at school and hence enjoy school more.
Lots of DC really enjoy coming in to a clear task and don't mind. It makes the classroom more accessible to a lot of children who don't want to come in to a noise filled manic environment, but to a calm, orderly place with a clear routine.
Children have so many opportunities to do fun things, at play times, after school, weekends, even during lessons nowadays it is a lot more engaging and accessible than when we were at school.

The figures for children not achieving good maths and English at 7 and 11 and then going on to secondary disadvantaged, are shocking. It is really sad and really does affect lives. We are so lucky our children have the opportunities to be in school 8:30-3, to be encouraged to conquer basic skills from the start and are in schools where there is generally an atmosphere or aspiration and achievement (relatively to the whole world).

Quangle · 08/10/2013 14:04

I would love this to happen at our school. Instead it opens at 8.50 and the children line up in the playground where they are not around to run in case they hurt themselves .

Half an hour settling in in the classroom sounds fab, not to mention the extra half hour I would have to get to work.

(And don't anyone start that "school is not childcare" thing that drives me mad - sometimes school just is childcare because the world depends on people going to work - otherwise they wouldn't keep children there at lunchtimes or breaktime and frankly, can't we just all get a bit realistic about the fact that people actually do literally, completely and totally have to work and schools have a part to play in making that happen just as I, as an employer have a part to play in making sure my employees can meet their caring obligations too ...Phew. Rant over. for now ).

Pooka · 08/10/2013 14:26

The more I think about it, the more taken I am by the idea.

It's like having a mini homework club - so kids can do their homework in a classroom setting when they're fresh and don't have distractions. Also an opportunity for them to get to know their teachers outside of formal lesson time and for the teachers to get to know them.

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