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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Year 5 swim lessons - part of NC? Should we have to pay?

19 replies

youarewinning · 05/10/2013 21:14

My DS is in year 5. At the end of year 4 got a lesson re sessions, told 10 weeks and heavily subsidised and ask for voluntary contribution of £25 - please let office know if you can't pay this term and arrange to pay after holidays

So my DS goes every week, they get half hour. Fine and dandy, but, here is my issue.

They swim in 2 lots of 3 groups, only have half the pool and the 3 groups are divided up in the pool lengthways - 25m pool. So DS is in the group that are at deep end and swim about 10m down the pool.

That's it, that's the top group. I was going to say I was happy for him not to go and not pay but was told it compulsory under NC - is this the case?

If it is the case surely when the school are asking for payment they should have groups available that actually mean the children learn or gain something from it? (I get they really can't actually enforce payment but they are asking).

Oh dear, it sounds like I'm whittering but I guess what I'm actually asking is surely if you must differentiate literacy, maths etc so every pupil learns and the more able are stretched you should consider that there are many 9/10 year olds who can swim further than 10m and arrange the lessons appropriately? So the first half hour is 3 groups up and down the pool and the next session is for those who can manage lengths?

I'd be interested to hear how other schools arrange their swim sessions and their set up.

TIA

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shebird · 05/10/2013 21:21

Same set up at our schools swimming lessons. I believe it is part of the NC but some children having private lessons have been permitted to opt out and remain at school during the swimming lesson.

bundaberg · 05/10/2013 21:26

no, they cannot make you pay they can only ask for a voluntary contribution.

they HAVE to provide lessons. you don't have to pay.

I have no idea what would happen to schools who couldn't afford it if all the parents refused to pay though ,I guess the kids would miss out on other stuff

brambleandapple · 05/10/2013 22:03

If parents cannot pay the school has to either from the school fund or hardship fund, if the parents meet certain criteria.

IMO swimming is a NC subject. The school should pay and in fact is obliged to. Ignore this, if you want. There is nothing the school can do.

Ditto volunteers, even if there are none, the school have to provide.

However it is a non core subject and Ofsted do not check the provision as far as I know so they could take a risk and cancel lessons. No child should be singled out though.

cakesaregood · 05/10/2013 22:05

Our top swimmers have a similar amount of the pool. They jump in, swim half way down, climb out and then walk back to find the rest of their line is already in the pool and go again. They get a really good work out and improve their strokes; there are some very strong swimmers too.

Actually, it's very similar to the after school lessons at our local pool - although I've never seen those children as out of breath as they are at our school lessons.

WorriedMouse · 05/10/2013 22:35

If the children are going swimming as part of the curriculum it's a voluntary contribution. Some schools ask for this contribution to pay for transport to and from the pool. I believe that the actual lessons are free. As far as I understand it, it's only compulsory for schools to teach swimming if children can't swim a certain distance (can't remember what it is though, sorry). Obviously, it would be a nighmare, and unfair on the others, to only take those who can't swim. You can refuse to pay the contribution but it probably means that next year they'll ask for more from the others.

MerlinFromCamelot · 05/10/2013 22:56

DD2 is year 5. She is a competitive club swimmer. Being a swimming teacher myself I can honestly say that her swimming lessons are not great. Having said that, it gets them out of the classroom and is good exercise. I think she sees it more like a social thing than proper swimming lessons. Our school is asking for a contribution of £30. Would prefer not to pay for it in an ideal world but same goes for a lot of stuff the school asks money for!!!!

Notcontent · 05/10/2013 23:21

I would be very annoyed too OP - 10 m is nothing is you are a good swimmer. My dd has not yet started school swimming lessons but from what I have heard they are a bit useless.

Ihatespiders · 06/10/2013 00:26

The current NC requirements are detailed here: www.education.gov.uk/popularquestions/a005562/swimming

Ihatespiders · 06/10/2013 00:32

Press Return too soon!

When my (then) yr5 class had swimming, the non-swimmers were at the shallow end with the professional instructor. The good swimmers were at the deep end with me, using about 1/2 the length. The can-swim-but-not-very-well group were with a trainee teacher, next to the shallow end group. All made progress whether on starting to swim, improving their strokes or in learning & improving other water skills including simple life-saving.

eleanorsmum · 06/10/2013 07:13

quick question. dd has just moved school as we move house. in her old school swimming lessons were in year five (her current year) but in her new school it's year three so she's missed it! does the school need to provide her with lessons or (as I feel) we just move on and forget about it. she can swim anyway! just wondered what NC says about it all really!

Original poster

youarewinning · 06/10/2013 08:28

Thanks for all the replies. I also have the same quandary about not paying - that they would have to find the money and therefore it wouldn't be spent on other things - as it's the NC and they have to go.

As my DS has SN I would hate to think he'd miss out on things that would benefit him being supported because he has to go swimming and it costs the school a small fortune.

OP posts:

toomuchicecream · 06/10/2013 14:23

Schools can't charge for swimming lessons but they can ask for a contribution towards the cost of the coach to get the children there and back.

And there is no national curriculum this year - the old one was disapplied from September to allow schools a chance to prepare for when the new one comes in from September 2014.

OldRoan · 06/10/2013 14:29

I think if they focus on technique over the 10m then it shouldn't be a big problem? Swimming isn't just about distance.

When I had swimming lessons we swam widths rather than lengths - by the time we had pushed off the wall we were at the other side, so just pushed off again. I got really good at gliding underwater!

Misssss · 06/10/2013 20:24

Are they school charging for the lessons or the bus to get there? Ours charges for the coach and it is expensive, I think the cost is £1 a week per child. Depends on how far the pool is though.

Original poster

youarewinning · 06/10/2013 20:39

Pool is a mile (ish!) away and charging £2.50p/w for 10 weeks.

They do work on technique - front crawl and backstroke. Annoying as it's his fly he needs to improve to complete the stage he's in at lessons and also front crawl over long distance!

Oh well, I'll pay my money and be glad it's not a disaster. TBH with his SN the fact he gets there and back with everything is an achievement.

OP posts:

hels71 · 06/10/2013 20:54

At DDs school they charge a pound a week...and the children all walk. It is for the lifeguard so I am told. They don't tell you it is a voluntary payment...and regularly put big notices outside saying how many people have not paid. The school I work in is only taking those who can not swim this term........

JammieMummy · 06/10/2013 21:27

youarewinning sorry I have to ask are you paying £25 a term? Only this seems unreasonably expensive as DD is at a prep school with no pool on site so they use the local pool(same one as the state schools use but we pay for the lessons). The cost of a terms lessons is £40 that includes all transport there and back and the price of the lesson. The children are in groups according to ability and all taught by proper instructors (and I haven't heard any complaints).

I hope I have read your post wrong and it is £25 for the whole year, but if not then I think you are being over charged!

Original poster

youarewinning · 06/10/2013 21:43

£25 for 10 weeks. They only do 10 weeks. They are taught by qualified instructors - the same ones who teach the lessons there. His swimming teacher teaches the non swimmers in his school group and she even said the set up his school have is bad - and he is not going to improve over 10m as he's working on rhymical breathing with constant speed!

Apparently other schools have 2 groups and split the children across ability in the year group as opposed to the 2 classes swimming and then the class being split into 3 groups iyswim?

OP posts:

JammieMummy · 06/10/2013 22:44

That doesn't sound like a good set up!

I suppose the benefit is that it is only for 10 weeks and at least your son is getting out of the class room, I would put up with it for just a short period of time but I can't believe you only get 10 swimming lessons throughout the whole of their time at primary school

It sounds like your DS is a strong swimmer though

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