Basically a state v private Q (sorry), advice welcome

[wavinggoodbyetomyprinciples]

DS1 is 5. We currently live abroad. He attends a wonderful international school, where he does lots of art, music, drama and sport. This is proving to be extremely good for him, as he is naturally an academic, introverted, slightly geeky (for want of a better word) child. The school has really brought him out of himself, widened his range of interests and improved his confidence.

Academically I am not sure that he is where he would be at this age in the UK system, but I have never really worried about that as he is very motivated to learn.

We will be moving back to the UK at the start of next academic year. I am a big supporter of state education, and had always planned to out my DCs through the state system. My DS previously attended a nursery attached to the (outstanding) local state school, however was not particularly happy there (in retrospect I can see how unhappy he was - he wouldn't talk about his time at nursery at all, whereas he now comes out of school full of stories to tell me). He was in a small class - by and large the same class he will rejoin if he goes to this school - and had failed to really find any kindred spirits, although he did have on friend (I always felt this friendship was mainly engineered by me and the boy's mum). I found the mums generally a little cliquey, and the boys in particular to have few interests in common with DS - they mainly seemed to like football, Star Wars etc, and these things are not DS's bag (I think this is a result of the particular demographics of that school year - lots of second / subsequent children who had grown up faster etc).

We are considering sending DS to a local private school when we return.
As I can see it the pros are:
Guaranteed smaller class sizes to let him flourish academically (although comparable to the size of the state school class he would join, but there is no guarantee it would stay this way);
Hopefully more opportunity to assess what he has learned in the international school and help him to catch up if need be;
A far wider non-academic curriculum to encourage him to continue his outside interests, and far more extra curricular activities;
A new set of children, some of whom he will hopefully find more in common with;
An emphasis on developing self confidence, which I did feel DS used to lack (it has improved a lot at his current school);
An environment that is more similar to his current school than the state school would be, with lots of specialist teachers and on-campus facilities.

The cons are:
He (and consequently probably we) will be far less a part of village life if we opt for a private school (in another village). I also worry about perception if I make this choice;
I would be sacrificing my socialist principles completely;
It would mean some sacrifices financially (not major ones, but in terms of extras), or me getting a job quite quickly (which has always been part of the long term plan, but e.g. I had considered further study, even doing a PhD, and that would probably not be an option);
He has a younger brother who is far less complicated a character and who I feel would do well (possibly even best) at the village school; we do want our children to attend the same school, but I feel that by opting to send them to the private school I could be denying DS2 an opportunity (e.g. to walk the 2 minutes to school with his friends).

We just can't reach a decision. We don't want to make the wrong one and have to move DS again - with each move he has been a little unsettled and it has taken him a while to come out of his shell again (he never really did at the state school nursery)

Any thoughts would be welcome. Many thanks.

You don't have to make an all or nothing decision now, especially as you are away and perhaps haven't actually visited the schools.

Would you consider starting him in the state village school and seeing how he gets on? You can then keep the private option up your sleeve should it not work out at all, or for a later move should it be OK but not quite what you're after.

I think most of what you mention isn't the be all and end all.
Most kids with parents like you ( involved and educated) do perfectly well at state school. Are you clear what exactly is on offer at the village school...
my kids' school has lots of clubs like chess, knitting, music, language, cooking, sewing, computer, cross country, kayak and so on-all well attended by boys alongside football and so on.The secondary school offers a mind blowing array of clubs from sports I've never heard of to Japanese and film making.
He can also access all of these outside of school. My eldest gets on with his classmates, but his real kindred spirits are at seascouts and trampolining. My dd adores her Brownies and drama mates, as well as the next door neighbour-none of whom go to her school.

The only thing that would concern me is his prior experience. Did he get bullied or excluded by his peers?
If it was simply not bonding closely, then that could be maturity and not knowing the social interaction stuff..he's older now. If the private school has smaller classes then he has less potential mates to choose from and they could all be rugby/star wars fans!

I suppose you could always give it a go and swap to private if it doesn't work out-plenty of kids join private school throughout the year and at every year.

Btw, have you established if the village school has a vacancy?

If it's full, and it's the sort of settled community where people don't move much, you may find it's not an option after all. Then your choice becomes more distant (unknown?) state school or the private school.

Defineme yes, there was an element of bullying (sorry to drip feed), although that seems an awful word to use in relation to 3/4 year olds. It was bad enough though for the school to involve an ed psych to work with DS and the class (he became worryingly withdrawn, to the point that we wondered if we were missing some special needs or similar). Her conclusion (based on a number of classroom observations) was that DS was telling the truth, and that a significant proportion of the other children (boys) were picking on him, telling untrue tales on him (and a few others, to be fair, but these children seemed to care less) etc. He is a very sensitive child, and this really got to him. Even once the nursery stamped it out, I felt that the damage had been done and he never really recovered or developed any real enthusiasm for the nursery. I am not sure how much difference 18 months away, and 18 months or growing up, may have done however. And he does have one good friend (who we keep in touch with) in the class.

I take your point about the state school still offering extra curricular activities, and it does. It really is a fantastic (albeit small and therefore with some limitations in terms of resources and being able to field teams etc) school - we bought our house originally to be in catchment. But I no longer have a great feeling about it. I was state educated myself though, and on principle really do want to out my children through the state system (DH however was privately educated, and I do think is of he option that private is the answer).

Class sizes at present are comparable at the 2 schools, although the state school is likely to composite further up the school, and so he would end up in a bigger class.

medtrina yes the village school has space, as does the private school.

Sorry about all of the typos!

Agree with previous posters who said to take a good look at both schools first when you are in the UK next.

Just some more things:

• your two DS could be in different schools depending on what they are suited for? Not a problem in my book (might be a bit more hassle..)
• regarding your Star Wars comment... Skylanders (similar action sci-fi) is quite popular at out DCs private school.. As is football..
• I suppose that the private school would have more resources to tailor everything to your sons needs
• maybe take a look what secondary schools these two primaries feed into and decide it from there... I know it is a long game. The head of our local state primary was quite irritated when asked what private secondaries they feed into and if kids would need extra tutoring for this. Which I understand because it is against their community ethos. This also ties in with your political reservations...

Would it be possible that state primary in a village is actually much better than our central London ones?

Good luck!

Sorry x posted. I think you should get your son together with the kids in the state primary class. Maybe the dynamics has changed? I think a visit to England is called for.

Otherwise I am sure you won't regret the private option..

Is the private school single sex as this may be something which might affect your decision making?

Particularly as you have 2 sons and also if you are in a small village there may be only limited opportunities to mix in out of school clubs with girls.

Thanks all, yes I think some play dates when we are home at Christmas might be a good idea. The private school is mixed sex (which I want - we have completely ruled out the local all boys prep on the basis of being single sex, and probably too posh for us (me) anyway!). The secondary school which the state feeds into looks good and does well in league tables. The private primary feeds into a number of secondaries - no clear progression, lots of choice. Including possibly state secondary. It's a tough decision, and I'd agree with the consensus that trying the state first is the sensible option. But I'm just terrified that DS will have the same experience he did in the nursery, and all of the good work of his current school will be undone.

I do understand that your desire to hold onto long held principles but you need to do what is best for your child. It sounds like you are also worried about what other people may think about you choosing a private school, again put this to the back of your mind and do what is best for your child. My dd was in a private school where she just didn't thrive. She had only 3 friends out of 30 in her class and found a lot of the girls hard work and was bullied by 3 of them. Though she was not their only target and the school was just not dealing with them.For the last six months I had to drag her into school every day. When we moved we enrolled her in a state school and she is a different child. She has lots of friends and is involved in many clubs . She is also thriving academically . My family are appalled that we have sent our child to a state school as there is a family history of using private education but my dd is happy so I just don't listen to what they say. Good luck.

Having read about his previous experience, I retract my view completely.

Bullying destroys children and put back into that class after only 18 months...no way in hell would I do that to my child. He will not have forgotten and he will not feel safe. Of course children of that age can bully and they certainly can at age 5/6.

I speak as a teacher and a parent.

Please don't do it.

Thank you Pinnheart and defineme. I have to say that my gut reaction is very much per defineme's post. I didn't know the extent to which I was overreacting based on the behaviour of very, very small children. But I'm reassured to see that at least I'm not the only one who would feel this way.

I think we are swaying towards private (my ideal would really be another good state primary, but for a number of reasons we are very unlikely to be able to get him into one that's a reasonable distance from our house). I really do just want to make sure that I do the best for his self confidence, having had the opportunity to see the difference another school has made.

Having read your first post I was all ready to say that you should send him to the state school. But having read the additional info I think you should send him elsewhere. That school didn't work for him & while 18m away may have been enough to change things it may not have been, & it could really damage DS to go back in to that again.

Clubs at school don't often start until Year 3 or 4.

Another thing to consider re returning to the old school where he was at nursery...what were the parents like in regards to the bullying type issues? Did they support school when they investigated or did they just believe their children were not involved?

I would struggle to return my child back to a school where they had already had a bad experience, especially after they had had time away and made such positive progress in the other environment.

BTW - not being at the local school hasn't prevented my DD from making local friends, nor from having a very actve social life within her school mates either. Just the parents need to be a bit more involved wit regards to pick up, etc.

Highlander - at my DD's school, clubs start in Reception.

Normally, I'd be all "send him to the state school" but given your experience with this particular year group, I can see why you are tending towards state.

Thank you for the further responses. It really is helpful to chat this through, it is weighing on my mind so much. It is good to hear that not attending the local school won't necessarily mean not keeping his local friends, and this is definitely something I'd be prepared to work on.

Hula, the whole thing was not dealt with that well by the nursery and I wasn't privy to their discussions with the other parents, so it's hard to know exactly how the issue was presented to them. But generally I felt that they stuck together as a group (they are a social group anyway, mainly based on older children's friendships and the PTA) and took a 'boys will be boys' / 'they are only little' attitude. The was certainly no attempt to actively include DS, or the other couple of boys who had been treated similarly, outside of school. A couple of mums of girls in the class were sympathetic and agreed that they could see the dynamic, but I avoided directly discussing the situation with the parents of the boys actually involved, and they did no more than allude to it in a fairly lighthearted way.

I think I would incline towards the private school. Not because they won't be just as much into Star Wars and football there, but because he already has bad memories from the other group. You want the move back to be a positive thing for him.