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Higher Order Phonic Skills

8 replies

Italiangreyhound · 04/10/2013 12:57

Please can anyone tell me what Higher Order Phonic Skills are? My daughter is struggling with these and I am not sure what it means. Had a meeting with teachers and they said a lot which I wrote down but looking at my notes I am not sure what they mean by this phrase!

Any help gratefully welcomed, please, my DD is dyslexic and 9.

OP posts:
betterwhenthesunshines · 04/10/2013 13:59

No idea - you need to learn a lot as a parent on all this stuff! I'm sure school wouldn't mind if you asked again. Is it reading or writing that's causing most problems?

Maybe sounds like -ough: thought / enough being different?

My DD is nearly 9 and dyslexic and can read the trickier words ( I'm sure she does this by sight) but still replaces simple words when reading and still can't spell simple things correctly when she's just free writing; cald (called) sed (said), gose (goes) - aaargh! And breathe!

I'm thinking of going back to do Toe-by-Toe more consistently but we've spent so much time doing VT exercises and a reading programme (huge improvement) that it would be nice to give her a break, but I'm not sure if we can afford to fall further behind Sad

maizieD · 04/10/2013 19:02

I've used phonics with older 'struggling readers' for a number of years and, although I am fairly expert at it I wouldn't have a clue what the OP's teacher means by 'Higher Order Phonic skills'! I'd go back and ask for clarification.

betterwhenthesunshines: I wouldn't use Toe by toe for spelling; try 'Apples and Pears'
www.prometheantrust.org/soundfoundationsbooks.htm

A bit pricey but worth it.

Mashabell · 04/10/2013 19:11

cald (called) sed (said), gose (goes)
are all logical spellings - cf. bald, bed, nose.
The majority of reading and spelling problems are caused by the inconsistencies of English spelling.

'Higher order phonics' for reading appears to mean mainly the teaching alternative pronunciations for sounds, in addition to the main ones,
e.g. on, not, spot ... - other, brother, mother... to, do, who...
so that when children can't decode a word with basic phonics, they try out the alternatives, instead of just guessing.

For reading this can be quite helpful, although the likes of 'other, brother...' are really just tricky words which the best readers tend to learn more efficiently by sight, with repeated exposure, as they eventually do with all words.

Some advocates of phonics call the teaching of alternative spellings 'higher order phonics' too, but knowing that, for example, the ee sound can be spelt as in 'speak, seek, shriek' is of little help in remembering which one applies to a particular word. Hundreds of vowel spellings just have to be imprinted on children's minds word by word. That's what makes learning to write English difficult and extremely time-consuming for most pupils.

Masha Bell

Italiangreyhound · 04/10/2013 19:57

Thanks so much one and all. If you can recommend any more websites I would be grateful. I hate the way our words are spelled and wish it was standerdised. I wonder if there is movement for the 'standerdisation ov Inglish Speling'!

OP posts:
mrz · 04/10/2013 20:36

I don't know any advocates of phonics who call the alternatives "higher order phonics" ...

Italiangreyhound meet Masha spelling reformer extraordinaire

maizieD · 04/10/2013 22:05

'Higher order phonics' for reading appears to mean mainly the teaching alternative pronunciations for sounds, in addition to the main ones,

Masha, please tell me how a 'sound' can have an alternative pronunciation.[eye roll]

Mashabell · 05/10/2013 06:24

Maizie
Well done for spotting my slip.
The examples I gave show that I meant alternative pronunciations for letters, like the letter o in
"e.g. on, not, spot ... - other, brother, mother... to, do, who...".

Sounds don't have alternative pronunciations, as u have rightly pointed out. Sorry about the careless slip.

Italiangreyhound · 06/10/2013 01:52

Thank you very much. Any more web links, please, gratefully received.

OP posts:
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