Is this an OK thing to ask to help with admissions to a primary school?

[srednivashtar]

We have a very good, very oversubscribed local school, which I would like DS to go to. We live a stones-throw from the door but because it's a CofE school, nearly all the places go to churchgoers and then siblings and then after that last year only one place was awarded on catchment.

They have a big thing about teaching Spanish in the school and are currently looking for people to volunteer for various Spanish activities. I speak fluent Spanish, have a professional qualification and have teaching experience, including teaching children.

Now I'm sure you can all see where my brass neck is heading. If I volunteer at the school, would it be awful to ask if that would help me get DS into the school next September? I don't want to do it if not, but I would be happy to do it if it would, including on an ongoing basis.

I can't begin to imagine how I would phrase it. What does anybody else think?

It won't make any difference unless they have a category which gives priority to volunteers - which I'm fairly sure they won't. They have to follow the admission guidelines.

Unless there is a child of staff category should make no odds.

They must follow their admission policy and it almost certainly will not include helpers' children. However, last year may not be the norm regarding admissions. Have they taken in more children from the catchment in previous years? Personally I hate this smug self-selection of faith schools which denies local children a place at their local school. It is not choice, it is no choice.

Yes look at their admissions policy and the LA booklet should show how many got in in each category for the past couple of years. They may well be building more classrooms and have an increased admissions number this next year. You don't know until you do your homework.

it is worth getting better information direct from the school, you are allowed to buzz the gate and go into the office any school day to ask about admissions for your child.

our local school is a church funded school and the because they had a fairly good reputation the hear say was very similar to your story, that no new child would get in etc i even began to give up then i asked... . .they explained that by law they take only half church places and then half community, brothers and sisters are only given a place within the two categories. the school then suddenly had very few people apply because of the rumour of no places, do put the school as 1st choice, you can also leave other choice off the list ie you only have one choice that suits you.

i got a place so did all other children recently moved into the area, the school then expanded to a two class intake and built a nursery, the nursery does not feed the school automatically but my advice is ask, fret not find out and apply. Even if you do not get your place keep your name on the list and it has been known that within weeks places are on offer.

ask . apply do not judge on community talk.

i considered attending the church as we all did at the time, helping and being employed could hightlight your commitment and interest in the school and i would say that it is of interest to the school as when they have open days etc it is noted as to who attends and who did not bother. the head and the deputy will have a list it might just be name sand addresses but they might know you. ie the secretary who lives miles away has her son in the school, however as others have mentioned there may be a provision for staff.

They can't give you a place because you attend an open day, or because you are the school secretary, unless it is in their admission criteria. Some schools do prioritise staff members - although often there are time constraints on this - e.g. working there for 2+ years. The best thing that you can do is find out the entry criteria and see where you are.

And only putting one choice on the form is a really bad idea. You may end up allocated a school you really don't want.

As others have said the school must follow its admission criteria. They can't give your child a place just because you are volunteering. Some schools do give priority to members of staff but only if they have been employed at the school for 2 or more years or they have been recruited to fill a vacancy for which there is a demonstrable skill shortage. Neither of those would apply in your case so even if the school did give priority to children of members of staff I'm afraid you wouldn't qualify.

agree with poster who said that not all the places got to church kids. That might be a misunderstanding.

One very popular local Cof E school is always oversubscribed and people go on and on about Cof E places pushing out local kids. I have a friend who works in admissions and she told me that they only have 16 places (out of 60) for church placements, and that each year they have FEWER than 16 church kids apply. The places were going to siblings and closest kids, and there were just too many local kids applying.

I echo the previous poster who said please please do not only put one choice on the form. The admissions team find out which schools from your list would accept you and then give you your highest choice. If you don't fit the published criteria for any of your choices, they give you a place in any school that has space left. They do not look at a form and say 'oh, only one choice, we'd better give them it because they obviously want it.'

Our local CofE school doesn't seem to have a limit on the number of church places, but there don't tend to be huge numbers, probably aboit 50%.

But no, it is almost impossible that volunteering will gain a place for your child.

Please ignore getitright- she is, unfortunately, misinformed about admissions to state schools.

Attendance at open days is completely irrelevant.
Being the school secretary is also completely irrelevant.
Putting only one choice on the form is a disastrous suggestion. If you do that and don't get a place at that school, the LEA can then allocate you any school it has places at.

The advice to only put one choice on the form is really ignorant.

The LA. is obliged to find you a school place, any school place. They will offer you a place in the school which is highest up your list of preferences and which can offer you a place based on their published admissions criteria. If you have not put down any school that can offer you a place, they will simply bung you in any school that has a vacancy after everyone else's prefer ces have been allocated,

And how could they favour volunteers in the admissions process? Can you imagine what would happen in a small village! Full scale competitive volunteering, the school deciding what was more important, Spanish teaching or valiant fundraising, accusations of favouritism and corruption.....

Study the published admissions criteria (available on your LA. website) and put the school first on the list.

Well as the admissions details haven't yet been released, then I would say if you want your child going to a C of E school and then why not start attending the local church on a weekly basis.

Get yourself know in the church with the local vicar and regularly attend. Volunteer to help out in the church as it is highly likely that the vicar will be one of the governors.

The school will not be able to help as the admissions will probably be done in county. However, if you start attending church and offering help to the church then when the application form comes out - you can then tick that you attend church. This might bump you up the list and if they check with the vicar then they can acknowledge that you go. Take your family along - a 1 hour service once a week isn't hard and you will find that you will meet other people in the community that you didn't know.

If you don't get in then you can then appeal on the grounds of attending church, your distance from the school etc. You will find that it might then go to the governors who can overturn the decision.

Good luck

As others have said you need to look at the admissions criteria for the school you are looking at. There should also be information to say which categories children gained admission in ie it will let you know whether it was on a religion basis or siblings or distance.

When is your DS due to start school? If it is September 2014 then you would need to apply by January 2014 and the admission criteria will definitely have been agreed.

Some C of E schools have no criteria connected with religion - my DC are at a C of E school and having checked the criteria recently there is nothing to do with religion there. Most other CE schools here are like that as most are VC schools. But the only way for you to find out is to look at the criteria yourself. And volunteering is very unlikely to be one of the criteria I am afraid..

I agree that the situation the OP describes isn't unusual.

My local CoE school has 20 "foundation places" for churchgoers and 10 "open places" for everyone who isn't in the top 20 churchgoers. But last year 9 out of the 10 open places went to siblings (or possibly to Looked After/Previously Looked After children or to those with an exceptional medical or social need) and there was only one place available for non-sibling non-churchgoers (that went to someone who lived 51 metres from the school).

But no, OP, helping out at the school will make no difference to your DS's chance of getting in unless that happens to be part of the published admissions criteria, which is vanishingly unlikely.

Most faith schools include a definition of churchgoing in the Admissions Criteria - for e.g 2 years attendance, twice a month is a common definition, with provision for a letter fom a previous parish priest for people who have moved house.

I would check that before you suddenly start attending church and flower arranging between now and January . I don't know how faith schools view sudden (genuine) converts, as surely people who have been on the Alpha course and wish to Come To God need all the help they can get to catch up

My authority will only consider the faith-based criterion if it is your nearest C of E primary. Places are allocated to to other recognised faiths as well. Last year at one sought after primary no places were allocated on distance.

I realise now the volunteering idea was a non-starter.

The admissions criteria is 'children of regular worshippers of x church, their siblings in the catchment area, then out of the catchment area, then regular worshippers of any CofE church, siblings blah blah the right at the bottom, non-church goers in the catchment area. I think last year may have had a bumper crop of siblings.

We're been looking at other options today as well, so feeling a bit calmer that it doesn't all rest of that one school.

Thanks for all your posts

Also do remember that you can register a continuing interest in the school if you don't get a place. People do move. When dd1 got her place there were only 5 non-siblings non- SN. By yr 3 some had moved, some had gone private, in total there have been at least 7 new children in her class and the last distance admitted has gone from 200m to ~ 2 miles on the other side of town.

FWIW, our LA has had their allocation of school places for 2013 published for some time, and I would imagine this is the same elsewhere? Ours only publish the previous two years online, but you could compare and see if the allocations were broadly the same for the previous two years. (It may well be possible to get further data on request? I am saving the secondary place allocation data each year because I am sad so I can keep an eye on how things change as we are not in catchment for our nearest secondary).

I would get going to church (though it may be too late, it certainly won't hurt), and list the school as your top choice (unless you change your mind) as it sounds like you have a reasonable chance of getting it if they do offer some on distance (even if it's only one place, as last year).

As others have said, I don't think it would make any difference.

Just to say to cheer you up - my dd has just started at a church school. We go to church so would have got in anyway.

However, lots of parents were put off by the fact that it was very oversubscribed and in past years only church goers have got in.

This year, because of high demand, they suddenly took a bulge class after most offers had been given and so lots of non-church going children got in. They were children on the waiting list rather than those who had necessarily been offered no place at all (the fact this may have been a bit unfair is a separate topic)...

The moral of this story for me is that you might as well put it down as you never know.

For instance, they may be fewer siblings this year.

The CofE school my youngest attends has just changed their admission criteria and now give priority to

Church goers in named parish
Non church gors in named parish (4 of them named in practice only 3 will apply as 1 has their own CofE school closer)
Siblings to child already in school
Church goers outside of named parish
Non Church goers outside of named Parish

So if you live close to the school you will actually get in before those who are church attenders and living outside the named parish.

Should be said that it is a small village school but sibling rule has been bumped down in favour of local kids I personally approve not everyone has