Reading with expression from a book that DS finds too easy

[CurlyhairedAssassin]

Ds is yr 5 and a great reader and I fully expected him to be a free reader this year. But no, as with many other children on this forum this year, he has been given a tedious ORT treetops stage 15. He read it and sent it back and has been given another one in that set. They are just not challenging in any way - vocabulary, setting of story etc. He rushes through it when he reads to me to get it over with.

What I'm worried about is, having learned on here that pupils are assessed for expression, that he will be marked down for lack of expression as a) he reads in a monotone because he is so switched off the story and just wants to get it done and b) he is quite a self-conscious child and so unwilling to, for example, read an exclamation as such. Is he going to get marked down for this? I just feel it could be a vicious circle - book is too easy and boring, ds rushes it when reading to teacher, teacher thinks he struggles with expression, too easy book given etc etc

Incidentally he has not read to the teacher yet this term or the TA - the TA gave him both books the reading scheme. How would she have chosen this?

Frankly I am getting fed up with the reasons given by teachers on here as to why a pupil might be given reading books at a lower level than what their parent reckons they should be on. There are more and more mums posting this sort of thing - what is going on?

I suppose the TA probably chose the book based on where he was last term according to records and in class guided reading? is the book the same as used in guided reading? (I have seen people mention that this can be the case)
Stage 15 is supposed to be for Yr5 isn't it? perhaps it is just a case of the school making all the children read them at the start of the year? who knows.

Certainly the reading with expression is something they have to master and for some children who are self conscious (or bored) this is always going to be a problem and I think they just have to force themselves to do it. It goes along with public speaking and things like that, the expression is very important when reading out loud. Although he hasn't read individually I expect he will have read out in class or guided reading so the teacher will have some idea of any problems.

I have to say I agree that scheme books for the sake of scheme books is pointless IMO. I agree that there is always something to learn but at home children should be learning to enjoy reading not having to read something they don't want to all the time. I assume the books aren't so long/frequent that they are impacting on his actual fun reading?

DD2 and me use to read alternate pages of dull ones with loads of OTT theatrical silliness. Really painful ones I just ticked the record sheet and sent back unread.

Life is too short to worry about tedious reading books once DC can obviously read and understand them.

If the teacher has not heard him read, the TA may well just be giving him books based on where he was last year? I always think if you're going to put a note in the reading diary it's better to ask what you can work on, rather than saying you think the book is too easy - then at least you can see what the teacher's reasoning is for him being at that level.

I actually think "easy" books make reading with expression easier - as the child doesn't have to focus so much on reading the words and following the story.

By your own admission he's not very good at reading with expression. I think you should work with him on some easier to read books to work on overcoming his embarrassment about reading aloud. It doesn't come naturally to everyone and that's why it needs practice. Once you're happy he can do it then perhaps ask if the teacher can hear him read, paying particular attention to his expression etc which you've been working on.

How is he at reading with expression at a book he finds interesting? With DS1 I stopped reading with him for a while as he turned free reader really young, and I didn't think it necessary. In year 5 I started listening to him read again and his expression was dire, even with books he enjoyed. He just hadn't read out loud properly and had forgotten how to do expression. I have now read with him regularly and his expression is fine again.

It should be possible to read an 'easy' book with expression, just as if you read a book to a young child that is way below your reading level, you make it sound interesting and exciting to them, even if you have read that particular story every day for the past month...

Are you doing the right sort of discussion with your son for the books? There is a lot of implied stuff in the higher level books, is he definitely picking up on it all? e.g. where/when the story is set even if it isn't explicitly stated, or the peoples intentions as to why they are doing certain actions.

This is a list of what is expected for blue/red levels (sorry I can't remember which colour 15 is)
Blue level

Children reading at Blue level will be reading between National Curriculum level 4B and 4A. They will be able to gather information from more than one place in the text and use inference based on what is shown rather than being told. This allows for greater complexity in building character and setting.

How to support your child reading Blue level books

The books at this level are written in a much more subtle way than in previous levels which means that it is important that the reader is fully engaged with the process of reading and alert to the language and vocabulary the writer is using. This level is more advanced than many books that are sold to adults but these stories are not intended to be just ‘leisure reads’. Although your child should enjoy them, the books need the reader to be fully alert and willing to learn.
You can help them by:
• continuing to make a time available for regular quiet reading sessions, and reading your book while your child reads.
• Suggest that your child invites friends who are also reading the book to a ‘Book Group’. If you skim-read the book first – or ask your child’s teacher – you can prepare some questions for the book group to discuss.
• Before a reading session, ask your child to find and note down some particular information. It could relate to the plot or it could be something like: a really good descriptive passage; three words which are adventurous; two words you want to use in your next piece of writing; an example of something typical a character does or says; how one character’s reaction to another shows their relationship … There are lots of questions you can ask which don’t mean you have to know the book yourself, but just serve to alert your child to its possibilities.

Red level

Children reading at Red level will be reading between National Curriculum level 5C and 5B. They will be able to synthesise information from different places in a text. They are beginning to recognise how layers of meaning allow for the build-up of humour or tension and are able to discuss how the author has achieved the effects.

How to support your child reading Red level books
The books at this level are written in a much more subtle way than in previous levels which means that it is important that the reader is fully engaged with the process of reading and alert to the language and vocabulary the writer is using. This level is more advanced than many books that are sold to adults but these stories are not intended to be just ‘leisure reads’. Although your child should enjoy them, the books need the reader to be fully alert and willing to learn.
You can help them by:
• continuing to make a time available for regular quiet reading sessions, and reading your book while your child reads.
• Suggest that your child invites friends who are also reading the book to a ‘Book Group’. If you skim-read the book first – or ask your child’s teacher – you can prepare some questions for the book group to discuss.
• Before a reading session, ask your child to find and note down some particular information. It could relate to the plot or it could be something like: a really good descriptive passage; three words which are adventurous; two words you want to use in your next piece of writing; an example of something typical a character does or says; how one character’s reaction to another shows their relationship … There are lots of questions you can ask which don’t mean you have to know the book yourself, but just serve to alert your child to its possibilities.

The TA is choosing books for the children ... in Yr 5????

It's actually easier to read with expression when reading less challenging books that don't require the reader to focus so much on decoding/reading the words.

Does he have younger siblings/family? Ds1 also in yr 5 reads gruffalo or snail and whale tor 3 little pigs to his little brothers when i'm too knackered for bedtime story including silly voices/expression.

I'm with ipad I'm stunned that they pick books for them in yr five. Dd 1 picks her own has done for months she's just turned 7

My dd was exactly how your Ds sounds though. If she's bored and not challenged you can forget about her putting any expression in. In fact I can bank on extreme dumbing down and massive battle if that's the case.

OP my advice would be focus your energy on finding books away from school that your child likes and which you can enjoy too! Shared discussions about books of interest will develop his reading well enough.

What funnyossity said, work on expression in other books he can engage with.

Thanks for all the replies. We got a letter home from school at the start of term which said "your child had been given a reading book to bring home which is appropriate for his/her age. Please listen to your child each day and sign the sheet. Etc etc."

So yes, it sounds like they are giving out books according to age. I am really shocked at this. Nothing to do with their ability then? The ta is simply handing out books for upper junior level no matter what their ability by the sound of it. What happens to the poor readers who may have been given books that are too difficult for them?!

Seriously the Treetops books are dire. Badly written. Little in the way of descriptive language about people and places and situations and how characters are FEELING. He did have some ginn pocket books last year which I felt were much better written in that way. These are godawful for developing inference. The current one is "Soccer Showdown" and it is literally all about what goes on in various football matches. Eg this character passed to that character and then was floored by a vicious tackle. The referee blew the whistle for a free kick etc etc

I mean, come on! My son likes football but even HE is finding the non-story so so boring. There is no mention of anything outside of the football matches which would make it more interesting. No home life side story. No description about each character apart from "they were the best striker they had and their only chance of winning the cup" type of description. DS and I keep getting the characters mixed up and even forget which bloody side they're supposed to be playing for because they are coming across as generic football players with nothing to distinguish one from the next. There are few interesting adverbs. No deeper issues are gone into and there could have been loads like feelings about success/failure, fair play, etc. Aaarrgghhh!!!!! We are both struggling to finish this book as it is such a letdown.

I understand people saying that using expression well is a skill that simply HAS to be learned (partixularly with regard to public speaking - hadnt considere that) and I agree to some extent but I fail to see how bland books like the one DS is currently reading is going to help encourage that. He has read the whole How to Train Your Dragon series at home which in my opinion are better written and more on his level and when he has read parts of those aloud to me he had been obviously enjoying the book and it comes across in his expression.

I am tempted to send the current book back unfinished and write a note asking for a more interesting book maybe at a higher level if the TEACHER agrees as DS was reluctant to finish it and I would prefer him to read a more challenging book that holds his interest and encourages the same love of reading that he has for his own (vetted by me) books. Will the teacher just sigh and think I'm an idiot who knows nothing about reading?!

:-S that does sound fairly dire! I wouldn't be worried if he can read other things with expression, although maybe learning to put it on when the teacher is listening would be a beneficial skill in the long run.

If your ds was a 'great reader' I would expect that in Y5 he would be long past ORT treetops.

Children in our school who are reading at level 3 are beyond this (in Y2/3) and reading books of their choice from y2 onwards.

If he can't read this level with expression then how is he going to read a more difficult book. Expression isn't necessarily judged on voices etc as most children find this embarassing, I judge more on intonation and emphasis on correct words etc. Any child who reads in a monotone voice is demonstraring lack of understanding really.

Isabelle, surely it will all depend on the school?

My children have read in groups and even very able readers have not progressed any faster than the top group as it were.

And how unfair you are to those of us with monotone voices.

Isabelle, i agree with you that he should be way past treetops, that's the whole point of my post!!!! - he did all thise in year 2 and had basically finished the reading scheme at end of year 2. i have wanted to support the junior school in what they want him to read but when it's the TA choosing the books and the teachers dont listen to them read then i dont have faith in the school's ability to provide him with appropriate material. I don't think I have made clear in my posts what a good reader he is. He is top sets for all his subjects, gifted in maths etc etc - a bright boy who achieves above average NC levels and finished infants with 3s across the board. I think he was 4C for reading at end of the summer term. So he is no genius reader, but very capable and certainly way past treetops stage 15.

Incidentally I am having déjà vu with ds 2 who has just started juniors and been given snapdragons level 9, which again are quite a few stages below what he was reading at the end of infants. He was basixally on the extended reader levels when he finished . I thought the infants were spot on in terms of their reading assessment all the way through from reception to year 2. The juniors I feel are simply getting it wrong. Other parents have felt the same and in year 3 asked for their child to be free readers, which the teacher then agreed to and ds1 is desperate for me to do this but I would prefer to go with what the teacher wants to do AS LONG as they are assessing him accurately, which is not something I feel they are doing if the teacher is not listening to him read! Even the TA isn't!

I want to support them, I really do, but it's very difficult.

Oh yes, and I also disagree with you about his lack of expression - give him a more challenging book and he is fine with expression.. I hope you are not a teacher as it sounds like you don't see beyond the surface!!

Update: I did send a letter in to the teacher in the end explaining my concerns and asking if perhaps ( with HER AGREEMENT as his teacher) he should at least move up a level. I asked if she thought he should stay on that level then that is fine with me as she is obviously the professional, but could she explain to ds as to why as I was struggling to explain to him myself and if she did it it would help him to make more of an effort with the books perhaps.

I got a reassuring reply in that what came across was her willingness to listen to my concerns and take them on board rather than dismiss them as being those of a stroppy PFB parent. Ds said that she took him aside and listened to him read and she has put him as a free reader and given him a book which looks just up his street in terms of interest an difficulty level. She DID say that he does need to work on expression, as I've mentioned, but unfortunately he was asked to read from his level 15 book which he finds boring and so I doubt he would have made a massive effort with expression as he does find basic books very tedious.

Anyway, I am very impressed with the teacher - she came across as really professional and helpful in her letter and even offered to try and find out why he was put back a few stages in the move from infants to juniors. Best response from any of his teachers in the juniors so far, and he's in yr 5!

Sometimes I DO think it is worth raising these concerns with the teacher as long as you are sure of your facts and know that you are not overestimating your child's ability - as is often the accusation on these types of threads.

LittleMissGreen: I forgot to say thanks for providing the ideas for supporting your child with reading at home - they are really helpful!

According to the Oxford reading Tree website stage 15 is working within level 4, so maybe that is what the school have based his book level on if he was a 4c last time he was assessed.

Thanks, Isabelle, and sorry I was a bit off with you earlier - was just my frustration coming out.

The 4C is a whole other point of contention - ds and his friends (immediate circle, similar academic ability) were all assessed as that at the end of the summer term and as parents we were all a bit concerned that this was hardly any increase in one year for any of them. I get the impression that most teachers are a bit blasé about sub-levels as there is not a huge jump from one sub-level to the next and so none of us paid too much attention to it. It will be interesting to see what they are all given at the end of year 5.

Anyway, will see how this free reading goes. The teacher wants to assess him again in a few weeks which is fine by me. I just want to make sure he is on the right reading material for him and enjoying what he is reading in school as much as what he reads at home. (He is currently lookig forward to getting the latest David Walliams)

Ps have not now got the energy to query with school why ds2 who had been loving reading ORT stage 12&13 at end of infants has been sent home from yr 3 with ORT level 9 books. [sigh]. It's like ds1 all over again..... Feel like I will be writing my OP all over again in 2 years' time for ds2!

Either infants have over assessed or juniors are in process of assessing and have just bunged them on any old level for now, so I will wait a while. Frustrating to hear him moaning about having to read "boring babies' school books - the Time Chronicles were much more interesting!"

oh no! Can't they just read books. Like in the old days .