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I'm a teacher and happy to answer any questions

315 replies

DellaF83 · 21/09/2013 02:46

Hi, I'm an experienced primary school teacher and happy to answer any questions anyone may have.

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insanityscratching · 22/09/2013 17:52

Inclusionist it sounds like that 1 to 1 isn't right for him. I'd be looking to have a team rather than one specified person, I'd be looking to see whether it was a clash of personalities, I'd be looking to see whether he needed a different approach but I wouldn't continue to inflict that particular TA on him no.
The TA who covered dd during OFSTED annoyed dd immensely because she was too present and dd's own TA floats in and out as needed also because dd is academically strong she felt patronised to be offered support with the academics ("I think they think I'm stupid" was dd's comment) It's not that support isn't needed it's the wrong type of support isn't needed I think.

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/09/2013 17:53

It STILL doesn't give you any legal entitlement to deliver anything but the provision specified in his statement. If you don't like the behaviour of the LA, or the system they use you are well within your rights to get yourself on consultation panels, write to your counsellor, raise complaints.

What you are NOT entitled to do though, is break the law.

NeedtoFightSmarter · 22/09/2013 17:53

Good. But do I understand that it wouldn't mean an instant change to her statement, so not really fully what we want if it is so black or white in the legal aspect of the educational world, as in theory they are still breaking the law by following this email's instructions.

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/09/2013 17:57

But look at this thread. Loads of teachers are breaking the law without repercussions. Many of them think they have the moral high ground to do so, certainly in my ds' last 5 schools. I think it is fairly normalised in most schools so not the 'event' that it should be.

soapboxqueen · 22/09/2013 17:58

zzzzz if people are going to take action to the detriment of a statemented child, what I do is irrelevant. I do what is best for the children in my care and that is all because I can't control anyone else.

There is a massive difference between removing support or placing it with another child and moving a ta a seat away or placing a statemented child in a group with a ta.

NeedtoFightSmarter · 22/09/2013 18:01

But I don't want it to have any repercussions on the school should there be another parent like you, starlightmckenzie, in our school who wants "the law is the law" approach and goes to a solicitor, newspaper or what ever people do when they are upset with the school's approach to their particular child.

insanityscratching · 22/09/2013 18:02

zzzz I haven't seen a school yet that doesn't in some way misuse statemented hours. My favourite had to be a secondary I viewed for ds who had a full time specified 1 to 1 statement who proposed that the TA's would be in the low attaining groups so I could choose for ds to attend the low attaining groups and share the TA in there or he could go where his academic needs were met unsupported. Funny really that I didn't take them up on their offer really Hmm

Doobydoo · 22/09/2013 18:06

Any of you have more than a 2.2?Also why are not children encouraged to think...state school obv...not private

soapboxqueen · 22/09/2013 18:08

Yes Starlight. I actually have my ta running a small business out of my classroom so that I can have a little nest egg in my autumn years.Grin

While there are plenty of schools who need there arses kicking, demanding that ta sit motionless next to a child because they are capable of taking part in a lesson independently serves no one. I'm not changing their hours because that statement goes with them and I can't guarantee that they won't need that support in their next class. Or that they'll be sent 20 steps back by an event at home which means all the progress we have made has evaporated.

I don't understand why you can't see the difference between a school failing to support a child and a school that is making small adjustments to help a child progress, become more independent etc

Ineedmorepatience · 22/09/2013 18:09

Need I am not getting involved in statementing arguments because I dont know enough about them!

What I do know is that Parents like Starlight are advocating for their children who are legally entitled to have their needs met in school by so called professionals.

You should hang your head in shame Sad

moosemama · 22/09/2013 18:10

"Following the letter of the law / statement would mean the child sitting one-to-one with the TA and no other children."

I think that depends on the individual statement wording and how you are interpreting it. A TA can work 1:1 supporting a child with SEN to interact with their peers - they are there 1:1 with the child to focus only on their needs, advise and support, There is unlikely to be anything in the wording to preclude them from interacting with the other pupils, just from supporting them.

In some cases however, even this would be a step too far for the child's needs. In those cases, the 1:1 work with the TA is required to build the skills the pupil will need in order to start working with other pupils or working more independently. It might be reciprocal conversation skills, listening skills, tolerance of others' opinions and ideas and those are just off the top of my head. The TA and the statemented child would therefore need to work on developing those skills, before taking them on the road and using them whilst interacting with peers.

Statements aren't set in stone for the life of the child's education, they are reviewed annually for a reason. If a child has, as per their statement, been supported to gradually learn the skills they need to start either working with other pupils or working independently (depending on what the individual needs) this will be noted at the Annual Review and changes made to move towards less 1:1.

Yes, statements can seem prescriptive, but as insanity pointed out, a statement that is specified to that extent has usually come out of a long process of assessment and consultation with professionals who are fully qualified to decide how much or little support a child needs 'at that point in their education'.

I understand teachers sometimes feel that statements are prescriptive/constrictive, but it's a simple fact that teachers in the UK are not trained in SEN to a level which would allow them to make judgements on the level of support required for many children with SEN.

As a parent of a child who has Autism and has a statement that is tightly specified, there is nothing worse that being told by a teacher that they know better than the extensive team of professionals and experts who have done in depth assessments and consultations to decide the best way forward for their needs.

My ds's teacher spent the whole of last year trying to tell me (and anyone else who would listen) that he isn't autistic, because of course she would know better than the experts that diagnosed him via a lengthy and complicated multi-disciplinary team assessment, in conjunction with the school, LEA Ed Psyche and ASD Inclusion Team. She was wrong, yet she saw fit to ignore his statement for the whole year, undoing much of the hard work his team had put in the year before. She felt he didn't need the level of support specified in his statement and as a result he lost skills and ended up with massive anxiety, which of course she failed to see - because she's neither qualified or trained to do so.

insanityscratching · 22/09/2013 18:10

But Needto if your dsd's statement doesn't accurately identify her needs and the required provision it is no more useful than a statement that doesn't specify and quantify anything. You should be requesting a reassessment rather than your dsd attending a school and not receiving the right provision to meet her current needs.

Inclusionist · 22/09/2013 18:12

insanity we've switched TAs. All of our ASD kids have more than one TA on the strong advice of the ASD Service. The boy is very eloquent and self-aware and is very clear that, in class, he doesn't want an extra adult to help him.

His statement is all based around intervention that will ensure, that by the end of KS2, he can access mainstream education mainly independently so as far as I am concerned he is my poster child!

I'm still not going to have his funding cut though. Who knows, when the pressure of SATs kicks in he may need more support again.

NeedtoFightSmarter · 22/09/2013 18:12

Sorry, I would be hanging my head in shame if I didn't fight for what my child needs even if it is not written in a legal document by "professionals" who may have knowledge about SEN but haven't taken the time to know my child.

NeedtoFightSmarter · 22/09/2013 18:14

Her needs are being very well met, it is just not as prescribed in the statement, insanity.

Inclusionist · 22/09/2013 18:16

Any of you have more than a 2.2?

Don't know who you are talking to Doobydoo but I have a Ist from Oxford thanks. Hmm

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/09/2013 18:23

'in our school who wants "the law is the law" approach and goes to a solicitor, newspaper or what ever people do when they are upset with the school's approach to their particular child.'

The law IS the law. However what numpty would fund a solicitor or go to the papers to complain about their child not getting provision that would be detrimental to their progress should they have it? Hmm

Upset with the school's approach? Well yes I would then - If their approach was to break the law to the DETRIMENT of my child's progress. I wouldn't be a responsible parent nor fulfilling my own legal duties for his welfare and education if I didn't challenge them through the official channels.

zzzzz · 22/09/2013 18:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

insanityscratching · 22/09/2013 18:25

You are fighting though for her to lose provision for which I am sure the LA will bite your hand off. You aren't fighting to have a proper assessment of her needs and for them to be identified and supported in a way that works.
I would want independent assessments made by ed psych, SALT and OT (probably cost you about £3000) if after that you were told that dsd was receiving more of the right tailored provision than was needed I'd be happy to reconsider the level of support.
I wouldn't be prepared to lose provision based on a 20 min observation by an LA employee or her teachers who have none of the specialist knowledge required.

insanityscratching · 22/09/2013 18:33

Inclusion dd in her current school has more support than she needs at present, there isn't a cat in hell's chance I am giving up a minute of that support because I am well aware how fragile that status is.
As it stands it is mutually beneficial that school and myself keep her hours, for now her TA picks up other children but her priority is dd and if her needs alter than the TA would have to drop the others to meet the statement exactly as specified.
Her school know they are onto a good thing that's why they are more than happy for me to choose the teacher for her who best meets her needs and so frees up TA time for children with needs but no support.

NeedtoFightSmarter · 22/09/2013 18:37

"As it stands it is mutually beneficial that school and myself keep her hours, for now her TA picks up other children but her priority is dd and if her needs alter than the TA would have to drop the others to meet the statement exactly as specified."
I'd be really happy with this, but what I was addressing was starlight's determination that this is illegal and wrong and must not be tolerated.

NeedtoFightSmarter · 22/09/2013 18:39

My DSD's SENCo has a MA in psychology, does that count as specialist knowledge to agree with what my husband and I have concluded about her support needs?

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/09/2013 18:43

'I'd be really happy with this, but what I was addressing was starlight's determination that this is illegal and wrong and must not be tolerated.'

If it IS tolerated, then this undermines the rights of other vulnerable children. That is why the law exists, to protect their rights. If schools and parents could just get together and make it up, they'd be no point in a law or statementing.

As I said, in reality, the only people policing the law are parents, and if parents are on side with what the school is saying then there are unlikely to be any repercussions, though I would personally feel uncomfortable with the idea any change to provision is made without a thorough exploration of the implications with experts.

zzzzz · 22/09/2013 18:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

insanityscratching · 22/09/2013 18:46

I think it is very different if a parent isn't kept in the dark and a child genuinely does have more support than is needed. I have never known any other child who genuinely has more support than is needed tbh but dd is in an exceptionally inclusive school with a teacher I have cherry picked. Our LA is incompetent and so haven't reassessed her needs in school in ages, they know I'd fight so don't take the risk Wink for now she has more than needed that I'm happy to share.I know though that if at the weekend her teacher went on longterm sick she would need all the support specified, or if she moved school she would need all the support specified it's just in the very specific set of circumstances just now she has more than enough.

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