Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Would I be unreasonable? 11+ related

27 replies

Perpelxedandoverwhelmed · 20/09/2013 13:59

Hello,

My son has just started year 5. He's a 4a for reading, a 4b for writing and a 3a for maths. After some discussion with his teacher (who runs the after-school 11+ club) it was decided that due to DS' math's level, it probably wouldn't be worth entering him for the 11+ as he would have such a great deal of ground to make up. We weren't overly bothered by this judgement as we have two very good local schools near us and a further two (with their own selective tests for entry) just 15 minutes away, besides the fact that DS is reluctant to do the 11+ anyhow.

However, he came out of school on Tuesday with a letter addressed to us, containing an invitation to apply for a place on an 11+ programme run by the local boys' grammar school for children who are considered 'academically more able'. I know that DS has probably received this letter due to his placement on the G&T list (and nothing to do with his teacher) and I know that we agreed that it was probably best not to enter him, but would I be unreasonable to attempt to get a place on this programme? It's mostly fun activities with an introduction to some more formal 11+ preparation. I think that he would enjoy the stimulation and it may change his mind about doing the 11+ or indeed confirm that he really doesn't want to do it.

Part of me thinks that it would be unfair to take a place that could be used by someone seriously countenancing doing the 11+, but another part of me thinks why shouldn't my son get a chance to sample a taste of grammar school life? Just to add, there is no guarantee that he would be offered a place on the programme as they only take 5 per primary school.

What do you think?

Any input gratefully received.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

curlew · 20/09/2013 14:02

If you are definitely not going to put him in for the 11+ then yes, you would be very unreasonable to take up a place on this scheme.

ReallyTired · 20/09/2013 14:10

3a is not a bad level for the start of year 5. Progress in boys is often erratic and its still possible he may reach level 5. He has almost 6 terms until the end of year 6 and most children manage 2 sub levels of progress a year.
I feel that your teacher is a being a little defeatist about the eleven plus.

Have you had the chance to visit the schools? If your son's maths was stronger would you like him to go to a grammar school? I think that it is good to have a attempt at something difficult. Are you worried about how your son might handle failure?

Original poster

Perpelxedandoverwhelmed · 20/09/2013 14:32

Hello,

I think that if our local schools weren't an option, then I would definitely be more fixed on the idea of a grammar school. The school itself is a 20 minutes bus/car journey away and I worry how that will impact on his social life as he goes up the years i.e. I don't want him indoors on a laptop every evening because his friends live too far away to go out with. He is quite a worrier and it does concern me a little as to how failing the 11+ might dent his confidence, but then I think a challenge is sometimes a good thing! I'm terrible at making decisions.

OP posts:

kilmuir · 20/09/2013 17:07

What does your DS say. Nothing to lose by attending

curlew · 20/09/2013 17:09

Apart from taking a place away from someone who actually wants to do the exam........

Theas18 · 20/09/2013 17:12

How selective is your area re grammar? He may have 6 terms till the end of year 6 but he only has 3 terms before 11+...

3a to a level 5 in 3 terms seems a very big ask for a small boy even in the best school.

" nothing to loose by attending" oh yes there is, a lot to loose! Self esteem wise going to this and finding it all too difficult would be awful I reckon.

IslaValargeone · 20/09/2013 17:20

I'm in the 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' camp, provided your son doesn't feel pressurised or it transpires he really isn't maths inclined enough to reach the required grades.

Iamnotminterested · 20/09/2013 17:21

What's he 'G+T' in?

IslaValargeone · 20/09/2013 17:25

You wouldn't have to gain a place on the programme to qualify for 11+ entry anyway would you.
Either way it's food for thought about his future options.

Elibean · 20/09/2013 18:24

I would ask him.

And at the slightest sign of pressure having a negative effect, I would pull him out (actually, if the local schools are good I probably wouldn't put him in, I'd probably find something else stimulating and fun for him to do, but that's me).

It is soo hard not to pass on our worries/wishes to our children at this stage....I'm finding it extremely hard to make decisions too!

tricot39 · 20/09/2013 19:14

If it is a selective programme and he wins a place then it would suggest he is able for grammar school? He might win a place and it might motivate him to work or he might decide it is not for him. Either way he has been invited to apply so i think he should.

I would consider 11+ for my DC but i am not sure how i feel about some of the kids being selected for special tuition.... It makes me more able to see why some people object to this system.

pooka · 20/09/2013 19:33

Dd started yr 5 with 3a in maths, writing and reading. Ended the year with 5cs. Now in yr 6.

Is sitting/has set selective tests.

pooka · 20/09/2013 19:35

Different grammars have different tests. So dd sat one with mix of maths/nvr/vr/reading comp. whereas next test is straightforward nvr/vr. And another borough includes creative writing.

CaterpillarCara · 20/09/2013 19:39

I would, in this case, not thing about others. Would your DS enjoy it? If yes, then go.

Kormachameleon · 20/09/2013 19:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LynetteScavo · 20/09/2013 19:42

If he has been invited to attend the 11+ programme run by the local boys' grammar school for children who are considered 'academically more able', then he has every right to go do it.

Just because you are unsure atm, about whether the school would be right for him, why shouldn't he take up the place? There may be another parent of a child working at the same level, who desperately wants their child to go to the grammar school, and thinks their child has the ability who would snap up the place. The only thing holding your DS back atm is you attitude.

A middle ability child from DSs class was offered a place at the super selective near us. I've known this child since he was 2. I know he's not academic....if he can be offered a place, so can your son. I think it's important to keep your options open.

How old is your DS...9yo? Let's not write him off quite yet as not being academically able enough to cope with the grammar school.

What is the G&T in?

curlew · 20/09/2013 21:09

"I would take the place - your priorities lie with your son and you should give him any and every chance you can, regardless if that takes a place from someone else"

curlew · 20/09/2013 21:10

"I would take the place - your priorities lie with your son and you should give him any and every chance you can, regardless if that takes a place from someone else"

Yep. That's exactly what the 11+ does to people. And why it's such a hideous system.

LynetteScavo · 20/09/2013 21:35

It is a hideous system.

Tomorrow DS is sitting a test which cannot be prepared for (I'm sure in the future parents will find a way of preparing for it). I don't even wan't DS to go to the school he needs to take the test for...I'm just mildly curious as to how he will fare. I've already applied for secondary schools and put this school way down the list (If I wanted DS to go there, I could have just bought a house in the catchment area).

As already siad, it is a hideous system. There are very bright children not going to grammar school, either because the child doesn't n wan't to, the parent's don't want them to, their parents don't enter them for it, the child chooses not to show their full potential during the exam...there is no sure way of saying which child deserves a place and which doesn't. Schools are surprised each year that some children aren't offered grammar school place, while other children are.

But what I do know is that secondary schools in grammar school areas, do have lots of very high ability children who for what ever reason wern't offered a grammar school place.

My DS was working at level 4b & 4a in English and Maths last year, at the end of y%. He is below average in his year group, and I was advised there was no point in him taking the 11+. I agree with this, and know he is a slow burner, (like me) , and will do OK at GCSE's - and fingers crossed A'levels.

kilmuir · 22/09/2013 11:11

Then why put him through it Lynette

Chewbecca · 22/09/2013 11:24

I have received (I think) the very same letter.

In our school, they sent it to all year 5 pupils, regardless of ability.

I've sent it back for my DS as I think it is a great opportunity. however, I don't expect him to get a place, there will be many many more applicants than spaces I expect.

If you're not sure, this programme could be just the thing, your son gets to see the school and get a feel for it all and it might make his mind up.

By the way, 20 mins isn't too much of a journey at all for an 11-18 year is it? Almost all the pupils at the local grammars will be travelling that, and much more.

missinglalaland · 22/09/2013 13:04

Take the place.
He's been invited. It is a good experience for him.

If you don't take it, they won't necessarily give it to anyone else anyway.

It might give him some inspiration and a boost.

Chewbecca · 22/09/2013 13:08

He's been invited to apply for a place, not been offered a place.

One more thought, the paper (assuming we're talking Southend) is 50% VR, 25% Maths and 25% English. I understand a great VR and English score can compensate for an okay Maths score. You don't have to get top marks in all 3 to reach the pass mark. (Though obviously that's the most desirable/safe option!)

tricot39 · 22/09/2013 19:02

I travelled 45 mins each way to secondary. Lots of us did it on public buses although for me there were no changes. 20minutes sounds very good to me but i suppose it depends on thhe area/route.

BrokenSunglasses · 22/09/2013 21:52

Let him decide. Talk to him about what you think the pros and cons of the grammar school will be and compare them to the local schools. He can look at the websites to see what s hook offers what.

If he wants to give it a go, the it would be awful if you tried to stop him. I also think you should be very careful not to send the message that you don't think he's good enough for the school.

Don't worry at all about taking a place away from other children. Your ds is just as deserving as they are, and they are already at an advantage being invited to something like this in the first place. The only grammar school available to us doesn't offer anything like this, I don't think it's something that most get.

Flip

1 2