private or state primary in central london? need all advice i can get, pls!

[mamalu]

hi. i'm new to the education system and have no clue what to believe about private vs state, when/if to sign up kid for waitlists and whether my expectations on getting a good education for my ds's, aged 2 and aged 1/2, will be shot to pieces in a few years' time. can anyone provide advice or helpful weblinks? last night i heard some thing from mothers at my m/t group that made me break out in a sweat!

Whereabouts are you? There are some excellent state primary schools in central London, and some terrible ones as well.

Two websites you might find useful are Ofsted and your local council's website (generally www.nameofcouncil.gov.uk). That will have an education section which outlines the admissions policies for the schools in your area.

Those two sources of info should give you a starting point as to which are the reasonable schools, and whether you stand any realistic chance of getting into them.

Don't believe everything you hear on the gossip network, and be particularly cautious of things you hear from people who are already committed to the private sector.

thanks frogs. i'm in mayfair. i've seen the ofsted and westminster education sites but to me, they are like buying a computer. 2 state schools near me have similar types of ratings, one higher here, one lower there, but on average, they are neck and neck. maybe i'm not fine combing them enough? also, i feel like i'm comparing apples to oranges with these reports because they tend not to be produce in the same year, nor do they seem to be recent.
another thing that scared me was a mother telling me that if i wasn't going to chuch every day, my kids would never learn to read and write(ok, hyperbole is mostly mine). what is the guideline on attending church? i'm from a country where a school would get in big trouble if they tried to enforce religion in schools.

a friend has her daughter at one of the v successful schools near paddington..can't remember its name but part of the building won plaudits for its adventurous architecture

hamden gurney?

Blimey mamalu, the woman you were speaking to sounds a bit mad to say the least.
Maybe what she meant was that given you live in Westminster, a number of the "best" state schools in the borough are apparently church ones, and that regular worshippers are more likely to get a place at these schools.
In the UK, it is a highly controversial fact that the Established (ie, State) Church of England assists with the funding and management of a lot of primary schools, and therefore has a say in the admissions policy.
First of all I would say, Ofsted Reports and SATs rankings really give an incomplete picture. You need to visit some local schools and see for yourself how they are managed and what the atmosphere is like.
Secondly, you need to decide whether you want a faith-based education for your children and whether you are prepared to commit yourself to attending church on a regular basis to achieve that aim. I am a practising Christian myself but disagree strongly with state-funded religious schools on principle - I think they should be self-funding, like they are in France.
"Regular" attendance in the UK seems to work out as something in the region of 2 in 3 Sundays btw. Not every day!
As Frogs said, try to see past local gossip, which can be both useful and very misleading.
And if you are Roman Catholic, much the same applies, although I think RC schools are even stricter about evidence of regular worship than C of E ones.

Phone the schools that are nearest to you, and make an appointment to go and look round. After you've seen a few you should have a better idea of what matters to you.

It is true that some schools are partially funded by the church (either CofE or RC) and may give preference to children of that religion. For very oversubscribed schools you may need to supply a reference from a priest to prove that you do attend church. But you should be able to find out from your council's website what the church school's admissions policies are, and whether you are likely to qualify. On the whole, RC schools tend to admit wholly or mainly RC children, whereas CofE may be more likely to admit all or a band of children from the locality regardless of religion.

Although church schools tend to do well, that is not always true, and there are nonchurch schools that do just as well, and may suit your child better. Ofsted reports are slightly coded, but there's a paragraph, usually near the beginning, which tells you the characteristics of the school (ie. is it a big school or small, how many children enter with English as a second language, how many are on free school meals). That will give you some guidelines on the school's intake, and a background against which to judge their league table position.

But to get a feel for it you have to go and look. Although standing outside the school gates at 3.30 can be quite instructive as well.

yes, I think it is Hampden Gurney

she's delighted with it

bundle, think you may mean Hampden Gurney ?

mamalu, get a copy of the Good Schools Guide - any bookshop or online. It will tell you about the schools that the mothers at your mother/toddler group are talking about. It mostly does private schools but there are a few state schools which "make the grade" for that (not Hampden Gurney, but St Peter's Eaton Square gets an entry).

Good Schools Guide online has also gots lots of factsheets and background info - generally a good place to get an overview of British education system.

thanks all. what about private schools? the ladies in mother/toddlers seem to name tons of schools i never knew existed. is there a way to compare them to state schools? will they have ofsted reports as well, as they seem not to be listed on my council's website.

when do i start looking into all of this? am i jumping the gun or have i missed the boat already for waitlists?

For state schools now is a good time to be looking (child aged 2, presumably due to start nursery class Sept 2007 or reception Sept 2008).

Some private schools may be perfectly happy to talk to you now, show you round and offer you a place (or a waiting list place). Others will sneer at you if your child is older than 6 weeks (yes, really). It is a minefield, particularly because there are some private schools that are genuinely wonderful schools, some that are pushy exam factories and some that exist purely because parents are concerned about their little darlings mixing with rough children from state schools. And if you have little experience of the UK school system you may find it hard to decode the signs iyswim.

I would also suggest registering both your DSs' at any potential private schools sooner rather than later, as waiting lists can be huge. You don't have to commit to anything at this stage, apart from the registration fees (which can admittedly add up).

thanks. in regards to private schools, how much of my and my husband's lives and abilities will be on trial? is it akin to joining a private members club?

Have a look here, .mamalu. Hampden Guerney is an amazing looking building just behind Edgware Road- I love it. My children's experience of being at a Westminster state primary in the south of the borough has been very happy so far and I believe that the state schools in Westminster as a whole are generally excellent. I do feel there are too few schools for the non-religious though (21 religious primaries borough wide versus 14 community schools.)

I love the building that is- don't know the school personally but i almost can't believe you could have a really bad school in that buiding! The playground is on the roof!