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Primary education

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Original poster

My child's not doing Level 6 Maths

31 replies

BatmanLovesGBBO · 14/09/2013 13:26

In a real quandary about this. She's able, but very stubborn about writing her working down (went for Asperger's assessment for various reasons, has many aspects but doctor said she's 'eccentric' Grin, rather than full dx ), so doesn't necessarily show what she's capable of at school.

She's just started Year 6. I know she can do many Level 6 questions, because she's always nicking the photocopied ones I bring home (am a Year 6 teacher) and buggering off with them. The ones she can't, are because she hasn't been taught the skills.

What is making this complicated is that I used to teach at her school, so know the teachers personally, and don't want them to feel I'm questioning their professional judgement. I know that they will have thought hard about who to enter. And at the end of the day, it's two extra tests, for what? Only the school benefits (apart from the extra skills DD would learn).

WWYD?

OP posts:
Original poster
BatmanLovesGBBO · 14/09/2013 13:28

Oh god, I'm one of those parents Blush Sad Grin

OP posts:
BoundandRebound · 14/09/2013 13:31

The level 6 is an oftsted tick box and does the children no favours at all

I wouldn't let it bother you and relish the last year of primary school

It does the students no favours, we pay very little attention to primary SATs as they are not in our experience relevant to children's ability or knowldege we retest and CAT for setting and reset throughout the year

missinglalaland · 14/09/2013 13:44

I think it would be worth doing, if you think she will learn more as a result. Also, if it gives her a confidence boost and something to be proud of that's worthwhile too.
Is this school the sort of place where you can be open and honest? If so, I would be. If you go in and explain that your daughter has shown an interest, that you believe in her and would support her, and that you feel it would give her a boost in terms of self esteem as well, I don't see how they could take that badly. After all, if you admit upfront that as her mother you know you can't be impartial and see whole picture, but these are the things you are seeing at your end; then you are still giving them room to know more about the situation than you do and to fill you in on their thinking.
On the other hand, if she has been overlooked this gives them a chance to review it.
This is your dd! It's your responsibility to look after her best interests, as you see them.

stella69x · 14/09/2013 13:51

Had the same problem with my DS his teacher when he was in Y5 said at parents eve that she would be getting level 6 maths resources for him in Y6 as he was already acing L5 work (small school so Y 5&6 in same class). Staff changed and new teacher didn't provide these resources even after me bringing it up to her and head but my battles with the school in that year are a whole story un its self! Anyway the out come hasn't done him any harm, in Y7 he was working at level 7 and end of Y8 he achieved level 8. He is now Y9 with predicted A* at GCSE.

wearingatinhat · 14/09/2013 14:34

Cannot comment on the L6 thing but I am one of those parents too! If we cannot advocate for our own children, then who can?
Actually it is nice to know that teachers do worry about this sort of thing for their children and whether to approach staff - I am sure it makes you a better teacher and more approachable for parents too.

Lonecatwithkitten · 14/09/2013 15:41

Could she be like my DD loves to fly below the radar putting in just enough effort to make the teacher think she is stretching her, but in fact is not stretching her at all - in my daughter's case we know this as she aces the exams every year 'surprising' the teacher.
If she is like this I would ask if they could slip in some level 6 questions if she doesn't do well you won't pursue it any further.
I have asked DD's teacher this year to put a rocket under her and see how far she can go.

Hassled · 14/09/2013 15:48

Don't worry about being one of those parents - as long as you don't go in with a "I'm right, you're wrong" approach (which you clearly won't), the teachers will understand.

I think if you think she's capable it's worth doing. My DS3 didn't do it, and I was too wussy to challenge the decision (and wasn't sure anyway). He got a strong 5A (apparently) but is still only in the second set in Yr7 because so many children did get that Level 6, and already he's saying Maths is way too easy and boring. I sort of wish now I had been pushier last year - if he failed, fair enough, but at least he'd have had the chance.

spanieleyes · 14/09/2013 16:01

How do you know she won't be entered for the level 6 tests? Pupil registration doesn't begin until 24 Feb and closes 21 March so the school still has plenty of time to make a decision.

Original poster
BatmanLovesGBBO · 14/09/2013 18:34

Sorry - next door had a bit of an emergency and had to dash out to childwatch.

Thanks for all your supportive replies. I think I might bring it up next time I see the teacher which will no doubt be fairly soon - I won't make a special trip in. You're right, spanieleyes, regarding test entry dates, but she came home to tell me who was in the Level 6 group - they have already started the work.

It's a minefield!

Thanks again all Wine Cake

OP posts:
Sleepyhead33 · 14/09/2013 21:28

I agree, the teachers won't have decided yet. I am a year 6 teacher. Entered 8 for level 6 last year and all achieved it. I didn't decide who I was entering until Jan/feb and then started the l6 work.

I have a more able cohort this year so have already got 2 groups of 6 going out for extra L5 work so That I can be sure they will be ready to start L6 work in Oct/Nov time. However I have about 10/12 more children that I am considering entering.
I will see how they get on in class with the level 5 work and decide after Christmas. Based on last year's results this will not be too late to start the L6 work and they will have an excellent foundation of level 5 knowledge and understanding to build on.

Talkinpeace · 14/09/2013 22:13

DCs school did not offer he paper
its just meaningless pressure

muminlondon · 14/09/2013 23:42

I appreciate you are a teacher so you know the level well as well as significance. But what difference does it make, really? I thought SATs are for the school's benefit not the children?

NoComet · 15/09/2013 00:02

DD2 school did it as an after school club (so a total cheat). She didn't get it and didn't care, she knew they hadn't done anything like enough extra work. She's in set one at secondary so it doesn't make any difference.

I've no idea if anyone did pass it, but if they did it was secondary teacher parents tutoring, not school.

It's a complete sham!

Sleepyhead33 · 15/09/2013 07:14

As a y6 teacher I have many, many issues with the NCTs (SATs), data dashboards etc but actually I don't have a problem with the L6 paper. It avoids the very capable children who are L5 on entering Y6 coasting along, bored for a year because they have already hit the ceiling and the teacher is under pressureto work on the 4/5 boarder line children.

As long as teachers only enter children they know are actually working at that level and handle that issue sensitively then I have no issue with there being a L 6 paper.

teacherwith2kids · 15/09/2013 10:22

Like Sleepyhead, I have no problem with the L6 paper per se - both my children have entered Y6 at L5, and the introduction of L6 has meant that they have continued to learn new things throughout the year, while continuing to be taught maths in their normal mixed ability class. (DS did have a maths session once a fortnight with a secondary maths teacher, but that wasn't focused on L6, much more on mathomatical puzzles and games)

What I have a problem with is the selection of pupils to enter it at this point in the year - because it suggests that children are being taken out / given extra coaching rather than the L6 simply arising from good classroom teaching of maths.

spanieleyes · 15/09/2013 11:15

If you think last year was bad, wait until this year when Level 6 data will be published in the league tables!

LovelyRuby · 15/09/2013 14:09

Out of interest Smile, ds has gone into Year 6 as level 5c in maths. Is it likely or not he will be put in for the L6 paper do you think?

His sister went in to Year 6 on the same grade, got full marks on the L5 paper, but missed the L6 mark by 2 marks, so I wonder if that is a common thing?

I imagine there are quite a lot of children (maybe 20%) on this sort of level or higher, so maybe only the 'sure bets' will be entered?

And, yes, I am keen for ds to do it, as it has meant that his secondary school are aiming high for him as a result.

Elibean · 15/09/2013 14:33

Personally....I would ask dd if she minds. If she's learning new things.

If she does, and she isn't, I would ask the teachers to please stretch her more. If she doesn't, and she is, I would say nothing.

For me, it would be about engaging my child, stretching (not pressuring) them, and keeping them learning and excited about the subject.

It would not be about Level 5 v 6 per se.

lljkk · 15/09/2013 14:39

They have decided L6 entries already? Shock
I thought L6 entry deadline would be in March, wouldn't OP know that herself as a y6 teacher?

DC school didn't know that anybody could sit the L6 SATs until the last Wednesday in Winter-spring term (after I convinced them there wasn't a timetable clash).

I think maybe you could ask your DD and IF she is keen (mine relished the challenge), then you could quietly wage a small campaign to get her included. But nothing needs to be decided until March, I imagine.

And it really doesn't matter, anyway. I am worried that DD's targets for y11 are now stupidly high because of her good y6 results. Be careful what you wish for.

nextyearitsbigschool · 15/09/2013 14:49

I think that we are being told this week which children will be put in the L6 group. DD has gone into yr6 as a 5C and I am told its borderline whether she will be put forward for level 6. I too have mixed feelings, part of me thinks that it is good if she doesnt do it as she won't be stressed about maths and can concentrate on her literacy which is a 4a but the other part is concerned that it will impact on her in year 7.

Elibean · 15/09/2013 14:56

Don't they reassess all the children in Y7 anyway?

They do at our local secondary, and others that I know of Confused

LovelyRuby · 15/09/2013 15:06

Elidean, yes they do. But dd has a end of KS3 target of 7, whereas her bf who got a couple more marks and scraped a L6 in KS2, has a target of 8. Now I know that both will be pushed at senior school, but let's face it, the school will be under pressure to get dd's bf to the 8 more than her, when tbh they are pretty similar in ability (and both the kind of girls who benefit from a being pushed, as they would be happy coasting in their comfort zones). I would like dd to fulfil her potential, and alas, amny school measure this by these very rudimentary stats.

teacherwith2kids · 15/09/2013 15:10

Eli,

DS's Year 9 targets are clearly built on his Year 6 results (his Maths target for Y9 is an 8A, which shouldn't be a problem given that he's already well into the 7s....though they have also given him an 8C target for English, in which he arrived as a L5, and I suspect that one's a bit of a stretch, though in a good way).

They only do CATs and a 'let's roughly check the Maths sets' [no other sets until Y8] tests at the beginning of Y7 so if they ignore Y6 results I'm not sure how they CAN generate all the detailed Y9 targets.

Talkinpeace · 15/09/2013 16:22

DCs school did not do the 6 paper, but both my DCs were getting 98% on all tests from April onwards.
I'd have been happier if they had been pulled out of SATs at that stage and stretched sideways
come secondary school, they had v v v good info on which heads "fixed" their results and passed their year 7 qca's to ofsted as comparison ....

Elibean · 15/09/2013 16:34

Ah, ok. Maybe it varies from school to school? I don't have any children in secondary school yet, I only know what others have told me locally.

My friend's dd was definitely assessed independently of her SATs, on arrival at her secondary school.

Again, though, if a child isn't being stretched enough at secondary, can one not talk to the teachers and challenge that? Or do some schools ignore that kind of communication from parents?