What truths in these unnerving application-related comments?

[EugenesAxe]

"There is no point putting it down as a second choice" (about a very oversubscribed school)

"I only put down one school as I was told if you gave other choices then they wouldn't worry so much about not allocating you your first choice if the school was oversubscribed."

The first one I was dubious about as essentially that would make a person's preference part of the selection criteria. The person implied they would rank all people that had listed this school as first preference and allocate places amongst them; as there were always loads people putting it second wouldn't get a look in. My understanding was that the council gave the school names/addresses of anyone that had put it on their form in whichever rank, then these were ranked according to the selection criteria. The council would go down the list allocating places to anyone that had listed it first preference, or who had put it lower but failed to get a place at the preferred school. A waiting list would build up for any people listing as first priority but not getting a place.

The second I just find hard to believe. The ranking isn't provided so the council has breathing space is it? I thought if you only put one down choice there's a risk of you not getting it, and being allocated a place in whichever school still has places after everything's been sorted.

I would be grateful to hear opinions!

I didn't mean that there would be someone at the council reading peculiar messages and following them. That would be bonkers. I just wondered whether it was automated or had to be done by hand by an admin assistant in each school (which might result in admin errors).

Also round here is the one that if you don't put your name down at the school you won't get a place. Schools do keep lists (or at least our primary dies) but I think it's only to give an idea of how many they expect.

I have been told that if I don't put my sons name on the school list he won't get a place despite the fact he has a sibling at the school and its 400 yards from our house. We have sibling priority here, and the usual catchment extends to about 1.5 miles...

Friday no, there is no special category in the admissions criteria at any of the community schools for medical needs. Getting statements round here is next to impossible, I know friends with children who would have a statement in most places but they don't have one even though their children have full time 1:1 support.
The admissions criteria for all community schools here are children in care, siblings who live in the catchment area, children in the catchment area, children at a feeder school, children of staff members, children by distance from the school. No mention at all of SEN, social or medical needs except for children where the statement names the school.

"Getting statements round here is next to impossible, I know friends with children who would have a statement in most places but they don't have one even though their children have full time 1:1 support. "

How is the funding for the 1:1 support achieved if not through a statement?

"No mention at all of SEN, social or medical needs except for children where the statement names the school."

That's pretty standard, though. It's not reasonable for schools to have to judge the strength or otherwise of a medical application ("my doctor says my hay-fever will be better if I go to a school further from the park"). A statement naming the school is, from the school's perspective, objective. It's hard to see what else is.

No idea Friday maybe it is because they are in the process of trying to get a statement?

Hopefully the school will at least read the medical information and they can request supporting info from the medical staff if they need to.

"Hopefully the school will at least read the medical information"

What do you think they could do with it, if there isn't a category in the admission process which covers medical justifications?

I've got no idea but it must be possible to provide the information for a reason!

"You can win an appeal based on medical needs or an unreasonable decision even if the admissions criteria were adhered to 100%"

You can. But it will be very, very difficult, and both the school and the admission authority (if they are different) will fight it tooth and nail, so as not to provoke a massive rise in the number of people claiming un-statemented medical reasons.

If the medical grounds are not supported by a statement, the obvious question is "why not?"; no school, I believe, can reject an application in which the school is named on the face of the statement, but they are not expected to adjudicate cases without statements. "Unreasonable decisions" is quite a high threshold, because normally the test will be "manifest unreasonableness".

We'll see. DS has been in hospital because of it, is on 4 medications all the time and sometimes 5 and has to been seen regularly by medical professionals so there is lots of evidence there if I need it. At least I have put the grounds in in case we have to go to appeal - but I think we will be OK.

No, not at all. I've explained the reasons why that school is the only suitable one in the application.

Thanks tiggytape :)

Hi

I haven't read the whole thread but find this very interesting and wonder (for those of us in an 11+ area) if the issue isn't complicated by what grammar schools are saying.

Around here (not London but major English city) grammar schools are reminding parents that "if your DC wants to go to this grammar school please make sure you put it first on your application form."

I think parents are forgetting that grammar schools intake is based on test score first and then distance. Most grammar school pupils live well outside the notional catchment for that school - so distance becomes a factor toward the lower end of entry (i.e. 20 tie for the last score accepted but only the closest is admitted and the rest are wait listed).

So if you put the grammar school lower down your list distance kicks in and the nearby senior school you put higher up the list is where you'll go - even though your DC scored high enough to get into the grammar school.

I'm not an expert (and tiggytape, etc... please feel free to contradict me if I have this wrong) - this is the first time I've had to ever deal with this - but my understanding is that you should put grammar schools (if that is your first choice) higher up the list and then local state secondary schools.

HTH

"So if you put the grammar school lower down your list distance kicks in and the nearby senior school you put higher up the list is where you'll go - even though your DC scored high enough to get into the grammar school."

That's right. If you are eligible for your first choice, that is where you are going: it is, after all, your first choice. So if you live next door to a comprehensive, and put it first, you will go there come what may.

It's worth noting that that isn't because the grammar school somehow only takes people who put the school down as first preferences. You could put down

1. Comprehensive school ten miles away which typically admits only out to 1 mile but would be great if by some miracle you got it
2. Grammar that's OK but you have some reservations about

pass the exam and go to the grammar (this scenario is not entirely hypothetical in parts of the midlands). Or more commonly

1. Nearby grammar
2. Further away grammar whose entry score, even on a unified exam, is slightly lower
3. Local comp

and end up again with your second preference (as my neighbours did).

The system means that you will be allocated the highest (numerically lowest) preference school where you meet the criteria, no matter what those criteria are. Most talk at the school gate over-thinks this

List the schools in order of preference. That's it, quite simply. If the grammar would be your first choice, list that as first.

Our LEA form had a box called 'supporting evidence' could not work out what that was about, you could continue over page and write a whole essay but as the procedure was as described above by tiggy etc I couldn't see the point?

Agree with what Past and Kvass said. If you put the grammar second you are telling them it is your second choice. However highly you score on the test they will disregard the grammar application if you meet the criteria to be offered a place in your first choice school because you have told them that if you meet the criteria for both you would prefer to go to the other school.

Some criteria do require supporting evidence, i.e. social and medical need. Where this is an admission criteria I think whether your child qualifies for this is decided by people rather than a computer. You'd need more than just filling in the 'supporting evidence' box to qualify though.