Any German mums of new UK school children? (Or, in fact, anywhere.)

[YouAreTheOneAndYoni]

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same situation. I know there are a few German mums here.

My DD is starting school this year and this has made more acute something I've been wondering about for a while: how do you maintain German traditions while living abroad without making your children at worst an object of ridicule, and at best just slightly different?

One example: the Schultüte. I bought one for DD on our most recent trip to Germany and would like to include this in her first day at school somehow. Would this mark her out as different so that people would see her as slightly odd for the years to come? Or are they all too busy with their own concerns to notice?

What happens on the first day at school anyway? I'm getting the impression it's not quite the same big deal it is in Germany... Would the Schultüte get in the way/snatched/left behind at pick-up time?

I want to give DD a sense of some sort of vaguely German identity (difficult as we live in the UK with absolutely no family here or German friends), but I also want her to fit in, and I know British parents are quick to judge anyone who is slightly culturally different and distance themselves.

DD got her Schultuete, handmade by DH and myself but didn't bring it to school. One reason was that they did a staggered arrival, 10 children a day, each with its own slot. DD was on day 2 and I felt the teacher and TA had enough on their plate than dealing with a strange object. But we did lots of pictures in full uniform with it in the garden. One is still on our mantelpiece.

We picked her up, Reception going was until 11.45am the first week, she opened the cone at home and we went to lunch together and started the "first day of school is a movie afternoon" tradition.

We do lots of German traditions at home, some of them she shares at school. The school actually has a German teacher so not everything is strange but we don't make a big deal out of it.

Her friends and their parents quickly accepted that a) I speak German to DD in the playground unless I need to include somebody else and b) DD has some strange stories to tell like that St. Nicolas comes on the 6th December and fills her shoe.

Her school has quite a number of non-English pupils so hearing French, Italian, Polnish and various Asian languages is not uncommon. The school actually embraces it and is always welcoming if somebody is telling a tradition from their home country.

I think you can make as much fuss as you like when your child goes to school for the first day.

Thank you for that insight into how you do things. Sounds like a lovely school.

I think DD is starting on the second day. Not sure what I think about taking Schultüte or not... Will definitely take lots of photos with it.

Do you mind that your DD won't remember key events in the same way as you/have different memories? I'm finding it a little sad at the moment that she won't share things I remember fondly from my own childhood.

If I was 'quick to judge anyone who is slightly culturally different' my poor children would have nobody to play with!! Don't assume all Brits are as xenophobic as the tabloids would have you believe. Of course you should maintain your traditions for your daughter. Whether or not she fits in will come down to her own personality and ability to make friends, not whether or not she has a particular bag. Unless you are in a very monocultural rural area I can't imagine your nationality/cultural identity will mark you out at all!

I've just googled it. What a lovely idea! As a reception teacher I would say to give it to your daughter at home, the first day can be a little fraught. However, it would make a fabulous 'show and tell' in a few weeks time. She would be able to show it (perhaps with some of the stuff put back) and with the help of the teacher explain more about it and how it relates to her German heritage.

Biscuits - it's not really a bag as such.

I didn't mean all British people are xenophobic. What I meant is that there seems to be a tendency (at least in my small town) to see people as 'other' if they do anything differently. This then makes people (not even usually born and bred locals themselves) put you in the 'polite chit chat' category rather than the 'play date/let's get to know them' category. Its not a racist place, but 'Foreign' people are definitely seen as 'interesting' rather than 'just people'. Not sure if that makes sense. Might just be my personality! And this is in a family context. I don't know about single people in the workplace etc.

Good to hear from a teacher! If you think extra things might get in the way, perhaps we should leave it at home.

I gav both ds their schultuete when they got home. I thought it would be hard for the other children to see one child with a very nice looking big present and them without. There's so much settling in on the first day the teacher wouldn't have known what to do with it. I have some lovely photos of the boys holding their schultuete and wearing their school uniform. It's a traditional woth keeping.

I agree with buttercup. It would make a great item to take in for "show and tell". When I went to Germany during the holidays, I loved seeing the different "Schultueten" on sale and DH is already aware that our DC will be equipped with one when they get to that age. (Planning very much ahead here, we are ttc again after recent mc.) I think it's a lovely tradition, and I also remember us having a special tree in the garden that grew small "Schultueten" for our parties at the beginning of school. It's a bit sad that this seems to be much less celebrated here in the UK.
Being "that little bit different" can be a positive thing and I would expect most schools to take a positive stance in that case. I'm having a German pupil in my class again next year and I think that's lovely. Last time I had one, we were like a secret little club, despite his German not being terribly good. He tried to bribe me with German chocolate at every opportunity. It was funny.

My dh is Irish/German so I'm a bit more removed from it, but it's been important to us both that our dc understand their Scottish (and that's the main one, I'm scottish, we live in Scotland, the children regard themselves as scottish)/Irish/German heritage. Fil got all the dc Schuletute for their first day and we gave it to them when they got home - loved it (and boasted about it at school ... because my Opi is German I got .... etc!)

We make an effort to have German traditions, they do tend to revolve around Christmas and Food though!! Only dc I've come across who devour pumpernickel and sauerkraut and their friends think they are nuts! We have a big family dinner on Christmas Eve, we light Christmas tree candles.

Our dc do end up talking about it at school, mainly as we have a very in-your-face German surname that sounds a little bit rude in English!

Be aware though that at some point in primary, they will probably cover either WWI or WWII. My dc are now 13,11,9 and ds (11) has just started on this topic in p7. He had homework to ask dh and I about our grandparents and WWII. My Grandpa was in the RAF - dh's Opi was in the Luftwaffe. Both of dh's German grandparents were in the Hitler Youth - that's how they met!! (Omi still says she only joined to meet boys!). At school, dd1 found it all a bit awkward for the term, she said there was one boy who kept calling her "the Nazi" and "the enemy" though school were fabulous and totally stopped it. The boy involved was an ongoing problem anyway. It's sad that even so much later children still hang on to prejudice. Dd1's class are hopefully going on a history trip to France as next yer is 100y since the start of WW1 - someone has already asked her why she's going because she is 'German'. School have been fab about that too, but I really didnt expect prejudice towards my dc in 2013 because their father is half-German. Actually in Glasgow you'd expect it more for the Irish-ness!

I think it's important that children are allowed to celebrate their heritage, and so I make an effort for the things dh thinks are important, and also with Vati - we try to remember to include him in family stuff he finds mportant. Plus I get to totally freak out my risk-averse Dad by putting candles on the Christmas Tree!!

Wow thank you Weegiemum - lots to think about. I'm surprised that they talk about the wars at primary!! It's a shame your children got that kind of reaction from classmates. I've always made a point of being open and willing to talk about the war with non-German people - they need to know Germany has the same critical view of it as other countries, if not even more so. I had to laugh at the idea of joining the HJ to meet boys (not sure that's allowed )

The Schultüte tree sounds lovely. We never had anything like that.

WW2 is a common topic in KS2 classes, but generally seems rather limited (the Blitz, evacuation, etc.). I don't think children are fully capable of understanding this topic at that age and it's sometimes chosen because teachers think it will excite them. (I know children, who have covered WW2 in Year 3, and personally find it completely unsuitable for this age group, tbh.) However, with the new curriculum coming in in England, it looks as if it has been securely shifted to KS3, and will hopefully be taught by history teachers with a slightly more in-depth insight.
I have taught WW2 at primary level, and I remember my colleagues initially being a bit wary of what my reaction might be. My classes have always looked at it from both sides, though,...and I was able to tell them stories about my grandad being a POW in England. (He absolutely adored England and is one of the nicest people I've ever known.) They are always surprised to hear what life was like for German children during the war.
I've had a few comments from children (mostly, when I wasn't the one teaching them for this topic), but it very quickly stopped.
It might be worth talking to the teacher when that topic is coming up. However, considering that your DD will only just be starting in Reception, the curriculum might already have changed by the time she gets to KS2 (and possibly changed again...and again...and again..).

I'm really surprised by your comment in your OP that "British parents are quick to judge anyone who is culturally different". Firstly because that really isn't my experience but I accept I live in London and my DD's school has over 25% of children for whom English is not their first language. But secondly, I'm staggered you think it is ok to make such a comment about an entire nation of people when, presumably, you are hoping that no-one wold do the same about the entire German people? I have to say I found your comment offensive.

If where you live is as small-minded as you say, I can only suggest you move. Honestly, as other posters have said, there are loads of areas in UK where someone having a parent from another country is the norm rather than "different".

Thatssofunny - thanks for that explanation. I suppose you're right - she is only just starting so it will be quite some time until she has to get her head around war stuff.

Alien - I'm sorry you felt offended at my comment. I do think things are probably a bit different in London.

I thought about the WW II as well and DD knows already a bit, she lives history.

We didn't mention the holocaust, that will be interesting.

But we are "lucky", her granddad comes from Hamburg which was heavily bombed by the British and he and one grandma also were evacuated to the countryside, just like the London children. So she can tell a German side of the story as well.

I think when the time comes I will have a small chat with the teacher, I would want to know how they will handle this.

Some villages are very insular, but even there I think the children tend to mix quite freely.
My eldest two DC did WW II in KS1, but it was very limited eg. They hadn't even heard of Hitler. It was mainly evacuation and make do and mend. The youngest did it in year 3, and a little more thoroughly, but it was very much focused on the local area, and they did a history walk talking to older residents and spotting where bombs had fallen (as well as make do and mend and evacuation). There are lots of German families at the school and its never been an issue (although DC3 has told me of some unpleasant comments made by some boys in her class, I told her to tell the teacher and that it is racism).
We are in a very leafy area, but still have a wide range of nationalities at local schools. A lot of children are multi-lingual, and the schools in my experience try to celebrate different cultures.

I gave my DD her tüte when I collected her and in fact I gave one to her two best friends too.

MissWimpy - what a lovely idea.

I don't doubt that DD's teacher will treat her the same as everyone else, and DD has made some friends at nursery so I assume she'll be fine at school too. I've just never had a close relationship with her friends' parents or mums from baby group etc.

I'm surprised that they talk about the wars at primary!! ... I had to laugh at the idea of joining the HJ to meet boys

I didn't laugh. My blood ran cold. Is your village so insular that you can be sure there are no Jewish or part-Jewish children in the school?

It is difficult for me to be light-hearted about any reason for joining Hitler Youth. By then, Jewish children had been expelled from school because of their ethnicity. They wore the yellow star. Their parents were jobless and penniless, banned from most public places, often assaulted and beaten by Hitler Youth, some already sent to the early concentration camps.... and most would soon perish in the camps.

I can't tell you exactly when my (half-Jewish) children learnt about the Holocaust. It was probably a gradual awakening. As a parent, one doesn't want to terrify them. But it's mentioned on Yom Kippur in many synagogues - as no-one is left to light a candle for so many of the six million.

And when children ask about grandparents, now great-grandparents - there's no hiding the wiped-out sections in the family tree. At a young age, they're usually given a one-word explanation: Hitler.

Dd1 best friend at junior age was a lad from Germany. I think they did adopt English customs (like Father Christmas) on top of German ones so dd was most envious that he got both. I don't think any comments were ever made other than interest in this though.

They did WWII, which his parents thought could be awkward, but he didn't seem to find it so.
It's much more history from books now than it was when we did it and our grandparents had been fighting. Dd1 knows we lost a lot of family in the Holocaust, but I don't think she would regard it as at all relevant to being friendly with him.

Dd is very put out that she can't do German as a language at secondary, and is considering asking her friend (now at a different school) to help her learn it anyway. (she doesn't like the languages she has to do).

At college I knew a German lad whose name was Adolf. He had the (from the English view) stereotypical blue eyes, fair hair. He was absolutely lovely and very popular, never knew anyone have a bad word to say about him.

I hope that reassures you a bit.

Of course. I'm sorry your family (and so many others) have been affected by the Holocaust. The HJ is not something to laugh about. But the juxtaposition of a Nazi organisation with a teenager's occupation with dating, absolutely trivial in this context, is startling, at least. It also shows how normalised it had become for non-Jewish German children to be a part of these groups. (Although towards the end most were pressured into joining.)

I didn't mean to make light of any aspect of Nazism/WW2. Afaik, there is a small Jewish community in my town. It's going to be challenging to figure out a way of telling DD about all of this in an appropriate way.

DeWe - thanks, that's reassuring. Though I don't understand why any German parent would name their son that (assuming he was born after 1945)!

I believe the last Pope was a member of the Hitler Youth for a while. Not because of the ideology but because he "had to". He left as soon as he was able. Nowadays you are unlikely to find anti German prejudice in most areas and if you can share some of the lovely traditions with your dc friends it will increase not decrease her popularity.

Hi all, just have read that thread and find it very interesting. I have 3.5 year old twin boys and they are due to start school next year in September (english law). My husband is british and I am german and the boys are growing up bilingual. I cannot decide at the moment wether to put them into the German School in Richmond or to go for an english state school. It is extremely important for me that they will learn the german language in reading and writing. I also find that 4.5 years of age is far too early to start school five days a week full time. What made you decide to put your children into an english state school.
Any comments are welcome.
Thanks

Hi, Katja,

We thought about it but decided against the German School for various reasons.

We think we will stay here so we don't need the German curriculum for DD to follow.

Reports from friends who attended German or international schools were that children often leave, lots of movement in the class, long lasting friendships hardly exists as the majority of children are ex pats so only for a couple of years in the country.

If I understood the website correctly it is a typical German half day. As we both work it would have meant a fortune in nanny fees and German schools normally rely on parents being there in the afternoon to deal with daily homework. Friends in .germany say that 1 hr a day is not uncommon, it is not possible for us.

Yes, 4 years is very young but you can't compare Reception to the 1. klasse in Germany.

DD can read German, less good than English but it is a practise issue. Thanks to phonics she learned she was able to read German books straight away. She can write, quite phonetically but that's the same as in English at the moment.

I ours check if there is a German Saturday school near you. We don't go as with us working we need the weekends to recover and we found that 5 days in school is a lot. But if I would be a SAHM I think I would have done it.