Advice needed - change to 'outstanding' school in Yr 2??

[testbunny]

Hi there.

Apologies in advance for the long post!

DS is starting Yr 2 in September in a school that he has been in since reception. It wasn't initially our first choice of school, but we have been happy with it. It is a mixed (church) school, both in terms of social mix and ethnicity and has a high-proportion of children on free school meals. He is doing really well (I think!), recently getting 2B's and 2C's in his end of yr 1 report. The school has recently had a new head and results are improving (they were awful a few years back). It was rated good by Ofsted but this was 3 years ago. They are expecting another inspection this Autumn, and hope to achieve outstanding, even though it is harder now to get an outstanding rating now!

However, he is about to be offered a place at an outstanding school in the same area. To be honest, I didn't think we were still on the waiting list. I thought we had come off some time ago, so this has thrown us. This school is very different to our current school. It's in a very affluent area and attended mostly by white middle-class children. The results are truely amazing, but most of the children are tutored in KS2 as they are more likely to go on to private school for secondary, so this i imagine helps the school's results!

I have been very happy so far with the current school - the teaching has been very good imo. I also like the fact that the school is mixed and more 'real'.

However, the only thing I worry about is that DS is in the top (small) group in his class and doesn't have much 'competition' from children of a similar level. I think having children of the same level to push your child is a good thing. My husband thinks we should change schools. He was privately educated and thinks that if DS went to the other school, he would do better academically being around kids of a similar level.

The other issue is that DD is starting reception at the current school in September. I didn't even apply for a place for her at the other school so she isn't even in the system. This would mean the children attending different schools for a while, at least. A problem, but not insurmountable (sp?).

Please, please can anyone advise, especially if they have been in a similar position! I don't want to potentially jeopardise my child's education/future for the sake of wanting to send my child to a more socially-mixed school.

My son is confident and outgoing, so moving schools and making new friends wouldn't be a worry.

Thanks very much!

your son is happy, doing well and his sibling has a place at the same school.....

why go to the trouble of moving?!

Keep him where he is if you're happy; the grass isn't always greener.
I also don't think that being around more able children will necessarily mean your son will do better - they don't learn through osmosis.
As you say, lots of the pupils in Key Stage 2 are tutored at the other school, and that DOES make a difference to its results.
You aren't jeopardising his education by keeping him in a school which you are already happy with.

If you think it's a better school then move him. He has a lot of years left in primary so do it while you can.

Thanks for your replies. I don't think it is a 'better' school in terms of teaching, so far at least. They do offer more extra curricular stuff e.g. piano, that the current school doesn't offer, which is appealing. My husband worries that as ds goes through the current school there may be more to contend with in terms of disruption due to more children with discipline issues, but there is no evidence the school is not dealing/cannot deal with it.

I feel that I would be letting my
children down by not moving ds, even though I know it is silly,

I'd leave him where he is - you're happy with it and the logistics of 2 kids at different schools can get silly.

Add some extra intellectual stuff for him outside school like violin or chess if you think he needs more?

My daughters are at a school which sounds very much like your son's. I have no evidence whatsoever that the social mix has held them back and DD1 has just left Year 6 with outstanding SATs results.

Personally, I find the culture of the school much nicer than that of the "outstanding", mainly white, tutored-to-within-an-inch-of-their-lives school down the road.

And the fact that your children would be at two different schools would clinch it for me. If he's happy and doing well (and 2a and 2b in year 1 is doing well!) then I would leave well alone.

Unless you intend tutoring and sending DS to private school, the outstanding school sounds like a total snobbish nightmare. I'd keep well clear.

Stella results in Y6, obtained by hot housing are pointless.

Y5-Y6 is when DCs are getting the most out of football, cricket, gym, ballet, swimming etc because they are past the little kid learning stage and can do them well.

Loads of time at secondary for HW. Seriously, no one asks you to put your SATs result on a job application.

DS has been to two schools - first a very middle-class 'outstanding' school with highly-tutored children, and from year 2 onwards a much more socially and ethnically diverse 'good' school. The second school is better in almost every way and there is a largish group of children working at his level whereas at the first he was the only one and therefore was largely uncatered to. I should stay where you are.

Thank you all so much for your replies. I really appreciate it. where would we be without mumsnet!

There is another factor to consider - dd is having speech and language therapy for a genetic speech problem. I know some of the children going into reception have difficulties, but are not statemented. In a way, I am more concerned about her than ds, in that disruptive children where she is going may affect her speech progression.

sorry, I know I am all over the place with this.....

btw. we are considering tutoring as the state secondaries are not great so we need to keep our options open, meaning we would tutor whichever school he was in to potentially go private school at secondary. I am interested to know why he would be more likely get into a private school going from the outstanding primary school?

sorry, ds got two 2b's and one 2c at end of year one - not a 2a!

thanks

Are your private schools actually over subscribed? Living outside London people only tutor for scholarships.

Normally you just part with lots of money

yes, they are. very affluent area! would rather not spend the dosh, but need to keep options open, unfortunately!

From experience outstanding primaries with a very middle class catchment often have neither the experience, know how nor desire to meet the needs of SEN children which your dd will, because of her speech difficulties, fall under the umbrella for.
Far better a mixed catchment with children with all sorts of difficulties because they will have the knowledge and experience and usually support needed to support needs.
Dd's TA picks up many children mostly because dd doesn't actually need much support because the school and her teachers are very sensitive to her needs and so accommodate them in classroom management rather than her needing dedicated 1 to 1 support besides which there are three full time TAs in her class so always someone about to help.
Our catchment school which is roughly the same size (2 form entry) has 10 TA's dd's school has 42
Our catchment school is like the one you are considering dd attends one very similar to your ds a couple of miles away because her statement gave me that choice. I am very happy with the school,dd has been supported all the way and will leave next year with at least level fives and possibly a level six or two (no tutoring, it's not needed and not the done thing at dd's school tbh)

I would be reluctant to move a happy child unless I had serious concerns about the current school tbh.

Also when was the outstanding school last inspected? It might not achieve the same grade under the new framework, which is much stricter. Your current school sounds really on the up as well.

Will you practically be able to manage school runs for 2 different schools? You may also find that school events clash, perhaps worth bearing that in mind as well. My dcs are at seperate infants and juniors and the school runs are extremely time consuming - we share with other families so it's not too bad - but on the days I do both it takes ages and only works because the two schools coordinate start and finish times.

I can see it's not a straightforward decision though. Good luck deciding what's right for all of you.

showwhore - yes, it would be a pain doing two drop-offs/pick-ups, but I reckon it would only be for a short while as dd would be right at the top of the wait list for the new school. we would find a way if it was best for the children..

insanityscratching, sorry, are you saying that your dd is doing well at the affluent, middle class prmary, or the 'mixed' school? sorry, head a bit fuzzy!

Have you checked the availability of reception places for your dd - they might have a place - some years there are more kids than others.

I would move your ds and look into a place for your dd.

they def wouldn't have a place straight away...I would put my house on that fact!

Mixed ability all the way. I tend to think in lots of schools it's horses for courses if the school's catchment is MC and tutored then they don't really have the impetus to meet the needs of children who don't strictly meet their remit.
Our catchment school is an outstanding school so long as you meet their remit so reasonably able children with parents able to afford tutoring for the last year or two. Our neighbours are very happy with it and indeed my older children went there (no SEN) and it did what you's expect sent them out with level 5's (no tutoring I think it's bizarre that it's thought needed in primary and indeed in secondary much of the time tbh)
What it doesn't do so well, because there is no real need tbh, is offer the nurturing, supportive, flexible approach that dd needs (she has autism).
This is reflected in their statistics 1.5% of pupils in the catchment school have SEN compared to 35% at dd's school.
It's not purely down to catchment either round here parents vote with their feet because there are as a rule empty places pretty much everywhere. Dd isn't the only SEN child in our village who doesn't attend the catchment school but she is the only one who has never attended it the others withdrew their children.
Dd with her needs isn't really noticeable in her school because there are so many with additional needs but she would stick out like a sore thumb in our catchment school and I wouldn't want that for her.
I would always choose a school based on the needs of your least able/ highest needs child tbh because your ds will do well anywhere I'd expect but your dd may well not.
Dd's school has a SALT who works with all the children needing speech therapy in that school because there are many, there are TA's who run speech therapy programmes and work closely with the SALT. Likewise there are TA's who run OT and physio programmes working alongside the OTs and Physiotherapists. Because of this the children have programmes led by experienced TAs alongside peers with similar needs. So whilst dd has her own TA because of her statement her physio programme is doen with her three times a week by the physical literacy TA (she no longer needs SALT but when she did that programme was done by a different TA)

thanks insanityscratching for this - very useful. I wish you and your dd the very best.

No problem I just think you end up having a very different perspective when you have a child with SEN. I never looked at other schools for my older ones because they would have thrived wherever they went to school. With dd, having inside knowledge of how the catchment school works from the others having been there, I knew that they couldn't and wouldn't give her what dd needed.
Dd is very bright and so whilst they would have been happy to have her for the academics they wouldn't have been sensitive to her social and emotional needs and I suspect would have used her TA to prop up their SATs scores rather than to support dd's non academic needs.
As it is dd will still leave with very good SATs (because they are good on the academics they just have a lot more start well below average) but she will also leave with friends, confidence and good self esteem and a high level of independence which is far more important if she is to thrive in secondary.