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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

KS2 results - are there often mistakes made?

12 replies

SuitedandBooted · 10/08/2013 12:00

Or are the thresholds much lower this year? My friend's DD has always struggled with school, particularly maths. She has been on School Action Plus since Year 2. She just can't retain information, and think her way through a process. Recently, it has been mentioned that she may have dyscalculia (mathematical dyslexia). Anyway, none of us were expecting her to pass her KS2, - she was ungraded in the "mock" paper. Therefore, it came as a bit of a surprise when she got a 4 in maths!! I have to emphasise that she can't just have had a good day and pulled all the stops out - she just doesn't really "get" it.
We all congratulated her, of course, but the upshot is that my friend immediately contacted the school she will be attending in September, to ask that they ignore this result, and don't place he in an average/good maths set, as she simply can't do it! She was reassured that she will be tested again anyway, and they already had put special measures in place for her.
So I come to my question. Have there been a lot of in consistencies this year - could she have got someone else's mark? Also, I was picking her up from school on the days they were doing the tests, and I do remember her saying that she did her test in the Head's office with the other children in her group, so the questions could be explained to them. Is this usually done for the children with some SEN? The secondary school did say it would be interesting to see how the rest of her group had done. I imagine it will all come out in the wash eventually, - any thoughts, anyone?

OP posts:

CounselorTroi · 10/08/2013 12:07

No idea but watching carefully. Have the primary school not queried it?

Original poster

SuitedandBooted · 10/08/2013 12:21

Not that I know of, -and maths results has always been their weakest area, so I expect they are thrilled!

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noblegiraffe · 10/08/2013 12:25

Questions can be read to children, but shouldn't be explained to them. That would be cheating!

noblegiraffe · 10/08/2013 12:27

Oh, and it may cause problems for the secondary school down the line as they will now probably be expected to get her a C at GCSE in their targets, which, if she is really struggling with maths could cause a lot of pressure and stress.

Original poster

SuitedandBooted · 10/08/2013 12:33

Hmm , hadn't thought of that , noblegiraffe, I wonder if the secondary school may look into the results, particularly as the person my friend spoke to mad the remark about the results for the rest of the group being "interesting".

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GetStuffezd · 10/08/2013 12:34

I teach year six. I checked all the papers through religiously to check for marking errors. Two had a couple of questionable marks not given, but I left them as it wouldn't have made a difference.

What you're describing though is quite common in SATs. I had some very poor ones this year, some SEN; some not, who came to me on 3c but scored a 4 in their test. This is simply because whatever area of maths we learned in lessons, we then answered them in a word problem context, using a database with all past papers on. This gets them familiar with the layout, the style, etc. It also boosts their confidence when they get into the real test and think "I can do this, this nothing new." I have one statemented boy who can't reliably count to 20 who somehow scored a 3 in Maths.... It's the nature of the test!

I think your friend should be proud of her DD's achievement and just ensure the SS give her the support she needs.

spanieleyes · 10/08/2013 12:36

I had a girl who generally achieved a mid level 3 in reading papers who managed to achieve a level 5B in the end of year SATs test. She doesn't know how, I don't know how and no-one else can explain it either! I have checked her paper and, whilst the marking is slightly more lenient than I would mark myself she definitely scored the required number to be given a level 5! I have informed her secondary school that this is NOT the level she is usually working at!

This is the problem with using a one off test as a means of measuring attainment at this age, some days are good and some days not!

GetStuffezd · 10/08/2013 12:37

Oh just seen she did her test in the Head's office. Well reading the test is perfectly acceptable, as giraffe has said. Explaining is not. I know of one school where really, really, dishonest practice takes place with the children in the Head's office. It's extremely uncommon, but it does happen. Equally, she could have just pulled it out the bag.

Original poster

SuitedandBooted · 10/08/2013 12:45

Hi GetStuffezed. My friend is neither disappointed nor proud about her daughters' achievements - she just know's it is simply WRONG, and she is nowhere near the expected standard for her age. A secure Level 3 would be pushing it, quite frankly, and as I have said, she cannot retain or remember processes well, so I'm not sure that the past papers she did would have had much impact. She failed the pre-test paper abjectly.
Like you, I just hope the new school can support her, and ignore this result!

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Original poster

SuitedandBooted · 10/08/2013 12:51

It's interesting to hear how other children have done so unexpectedly well- and perhaps goes to show how daft a one-off Test is!
I really don't see it her as pulling it out of the bag, though, - her particular bag contains very little as far as maths comprehension is concerned!
I'm sorry to say that I'm beginning to think that the teacher in the Head's office might have done a bit more than just read thing out..

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spanieleyes · 10/08/2013 12:59

But simply reading the questions out CAN make a huge difference to some children. I have one who, left to his own devices would achieve a low level 3 -he lacks focus, struggles with reading and would happily sit and doodle all day! So in tests where he works unsupervised he scores poorly and never finishes a test. But if he sits with an adult and the questions are read to him he is "forced" to concentrate on the task in hand, doesn't have to struggle to read the question and can concentrate on the maths instead. His scores improve dramatically.
There may have been some "extra" assistance given in the Head's office, but there may not have been either!

Original poster

SuitedandBooted · 10/08/2013 13:11

It's not really her concentration level, rather her lack of understanding processes and retaining information. You can explain something to her, and she will have a go at it. Do the same thing a couple of days later, and she will simply not remember how to approach it. She can (just) pass a times table test on a Friday, - ask her again on the Monday, and she's really struggling.
I'm not having a pop at teachers reading/helping/cheating/whatever, by the way, - but I do know her really well, and the result is just mad!

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