Expat Confused on English Education System

[Alexsmama]

Hi, I was referred to mumsnet from a different site and I'm still learning my way around mumset, so I hope I am posting in the right place.

Well, I'm not an expat yet, but will be. Here's our situation: I am American and my husband is English. We still live in the US and our son was born in April 2012 (16 months). We are hoping to move to the UK within the next few years and would like to get our son into a good school. The English school system seems very different than the US system. I've tried to research about it on many websites to learn more, but I usually end up feeling more confused. My husband has tried to explain it to me, but he admits he doesn't know all the in's and out's and I'm sure things have changed some in the past 30 years. We'd definetely like to be in the UK by the time our son starts his first year of formal/mandatory/all-day (I'm not sure what word to use!) schooling, so please keep that in mind as you read my questions.

• At what age or school year is school mandatory in the UK?
• Is Reception the first mandatory year?
• Is Reception one year or two years or schooling?
• Since my son was born in April, will he start school in September?
• Will he start school at age 4 or 5? (Assuming a Sept start, will he start at age 4 years 5 months or 5 years 5 months)?
• How do you know what catchment area you live in or how do you know what area a certain catchment encompasses? Is there a website you can go to?
• Are League Tables how you find out if a school is good or not? Is there a website you can go to to search these?
• When do you need to apply for school?
• How do you find out the requirements to apply?
• Do we need to be living in the UK to apply?
• Can we apply from overseas? (Not sure if there are other expats out there that have gone through this)
• Would we have a better chance getting into our school of choice if we lived in the UK vs applying from overseas? Or would our chances be the same?

If there is anything else I may need to know about or tips or anything please let me know. I appreciate it!! Thank you!

In answer ...

4/5
Yes
One year
September, yes
4years 5 months
Schools will tell you about catchment areas - also look at the Local Education Websites (LEA)
There is lots of data about schools - look at the BBC website, primary schools by area for data, as well as OFSTED and the schools, and LEA
You apply to the school in the September time the year before they start
The requirements are to be of school age
You need a local address to apply or speak to LEA
Not sure on the bottom two - depends on how oversubscribed the school is.

Also depends on state or private school.
Hope this helps

There are also different types of schools to consider!
For primary age children ( those from 4 to11) parents can choose between state schools and private schools.
State schools are free and the "only" criteria to get in are their published admissions criteria. This is the order in which they admit applicants ( usually something along the lines of children with special needs/looked after children/siblings of those already in school/distance from school) but these can vary from school to school. Some schools are also faith schools, so attendance at church/baptism can also be a criteria. In some areas there are enough places for those that want to attend, in other areas ( especially London and large cities) places are very scarce and your child can end up going to a school some distance from where you live.
Private schools are fee paying. Some you need to put your child's name down for almost at birth, others are less popular. Some have assessments ( even of 4 year olds!) and some don't go through to 11 ( or go as far as 13 years old!)

You can't apply until you are in the country and in the house you will be living when you are apply. So you need to think about the area you want to live in and look at the admissions criteria for the schools you like, some you almost have to live in the playground to get into!!

If all this sounds complicated, just wait until you get onto secondary schools!!!!

Legally he doesn't need to be in education until he is 5 (school or home educated)

The norm however is to start school age 4 into reception class. So your son would start reception September 2016. For a state school you apply by January 2016.

Reception lasts one year.

After reception class it is year one, then year two and so on.

From age 3 he would qualify for 15 hours a week pre school education. This can be in a pre school or nursery. Some are attached to schools (and the children wear uniform). A typical pattern would be say 9 am -12 noon 5 days a week.

If you wait until he is 5 he would just miss all or part of reception class and go into year one.

Reception class is a lot of learning through play, learning to read - phonics and generally getting used to school.

Ofsted.gov.uk has details of school and the inspection reports.

But admission criteria are strict and catchments can be small. Whilst you have a choice in reality there may only be one or two schools you stand a realistic chance of getting. Speak to the local authority where you plan moving.

Also some state school are religious - you may need baptism certificates or evidence of churchgoing to be admitted.

Legally he doesn't have to be in school until the term following his 5th birthday. With an April birthday he probably wouldn't have to go to school until the September after he is 5 - in which case he would skip Reception and go into Year 1.

However, the vast majority of children start school the September after they turn 4 and go into Reception.

You need to apply for a state school by the January before he starts. If you speak to your local council they will let you know how to apply. Schools usually award places first to siblings of existing pupils, then to everyone else by distance to the school, so if the school is very popular it's important to live close. Faith schools (Church of England, Catholic and Jewish mostly - maybe there are Muslim state schools too?) may have additional faith based criteria.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21785796

This may help you take a guess at what the situation with primary school places will be in 3 years' time. As you can see, the situation is bad in most of London and the surrounding areas.

There will be an election between now and your son starting school, which may further slow down the snail-like rate of schoolbuilding!

However, school place availability doesn't mean the places are in 'good' schools, sadly.

Is there an expat club you can ask for advice or could you have relatives do some research?

Also, it isn't you, I am British and a teacher and I am finding it confusing too! Things have changed enormously in the last 20 years. Note that each local authority has slightly different procedures so it would help if you can narrow down areas you're interested in first.

• At what age or school year is school mandatory in the UK?

The term after his fifth birthday. Depending on how the terms fall, with an early April 2012 birthday that would mean summer term 2017. With a late April 2012 birthday he might by e legally able to skip Reception altogether and start in Year 1 inn Septembee 2017. However, the vast majority of his year group will start in September 2016 and do a full year in Reception whenever their birthdays are.

• Is Reception the first mandatory year?

Yes and no. Some of Rception will be mandatory for most children. All of Reception will be mandatory for only a few children.

• Is Reception one year or two years or schooling?

One.

• Since my son was born in April, will he start school in September?

Normally he would start in September 2016, but you could legally send him later.

• Will he start school at age 4 or 5? (Assuming a Sept start, will he start at age 4 years 5 months or 5 years 5 months)?

If he starts in Reception in September he'd start at 4y5m. If his birthday is late enough that you could skip Reception and you chose to do that he could start straight into Year 1 at 5y5m. But virtually no one does that.

• How do you know what catchment area you live in or how do you know what area a certain catchment encompasses? Is there a website you can go to?

Strictly speakng most schools don't have catchment areas, they have admissions criteria in which distance from the school is likely to be one of the highest-ranking criteria. The local authority can tell you the farthest distance at which applicants were successful in previous years, but that's no guarantee in the year in which you'll be applying.

• Are League Tables how you find out if a school is good or not? Is there a website you can go to to search these?

Yes-ish (whole can of worms there). They are available from (I think) Department of Education website. Also check out Ofsted reports.

• When do you need to apply for school?

Generally the autumn before the start of the school year (so autumn 2015 in your case).

• Would we have a better chance getting into our school of choice if we lived in the UK vs applying from overseas? Or would our chances be the same?

You won't get into an oversubscribed state school if you don't have a local address to apply from. You could get a place in a private school if applying from overseas (but then you'd probably need to apply earlier).

...just to add some differences to what people have already said, it varies are by area as to when you have to apply for the school - so in our area it is the October before the time they are due to start school (so would be 1st October 2015 for you) but others are January (2016 for you) and I imagine other dates too!

Also the good schools will always be oversubscribed, so if you decide not to put your child in in September 2016, you will probably not have the choice of those schools as they will already be full of September start children, this is why most choose to start in September even if their children don't HAVE to start until slightly older.

To complicate things still further, if you move to Scotland rather than England it is all different again!

We've just moved to the UK from Dublin with 3 kids in school, so to add from my experience....
We did get school places while we were still living in Dublin, but we did already have a house lined up so we could give the school an address.

We live in the middle of England now, in a small town where there are 5 primary schools, and got into our first choice school. So in some areas it might be very hard to get into a school, but not everywhere.

That said, we weren't sure if we were going to get a place for our DD who is 5 (going into year 1, the year after reception). There are strict class size rules in the first 3 primary school years and they won't just add in another child just because you move into the area -- someone has to move away from the school leaving a place. So if you have a choice, try to get in at the reception year (age 4) when you have a chance to apply with everyone else, rather than wait until age 5.

Thank you for all the replies! They have been very helpful! I have a follow-up question: say we are not able to apply by the deadline because we are not in the UK by then or don't have an address/house secured yet. Can you apply in the spring or summer for school starting that autumn? I understand it is very competative and you're taking a risk applying late, but I'm curious if it is even possible to apply late. If so, what happens then? Also, does it matter when you apply between the Sept - Jan application window? Are spots on a first come first serve basis? I don't think so, but wanted to confirm...Thanks again!

I am pretty sure you can't apply late for that reason. A lot of people move to the UK with school age children. It would be chaos! The local authority does have a duty to find your child a place in school but in a heavily oversubscribed area your child will stay on the waiting list until a place comes up.

But no it doesn't matter when you apply before the deadline.

I will just mention that if you could afford around £3k in fees (a little less outside London, more in central London) you could secure your child a place at a private primary as a Plan B, resigning yourself to paying a term's fees if a state place comes up in the meantime. It is also legal to home educate in the UK.

Of course you can apply late! On-time applications are priotitised though, and late applications only processed once all on- time applicants have been offered. Once in-time applicants have their places, the good news is that time of application will no longer determine waiting list position.

Late applications are entirely possible, both e.g. for a place in recption between the 'normal' deadline and September, and once the school year has started.

Both rely on places being available once all on-time applications have been received and allocated. Some schools in some areas are undersubscribed, or have transient populations and accept all comers - the school I used to teach in cheerfully accepted 6 new pupils who simply walked in through the doors needing a place one memorable Monday...

We moved to a new area in late June. We got an 'in year' place for our older child through an application at that point, and DD was placed on a waiting list for a place in Reception starting in the september. When DS started at the school, for the final weeks of the summer term, she became a sibling (it was a school that gave priority for siblings, and the waiting list is held in the order of the admissions criteria e.g siblings first, then in order of distance, NOT [as many people think] in order of when you applied). She was given a place from the waiting list in late July, and started in September in Reception.

I know that you won't have the 'sibling' thing to give you priority, but it is worth realising that, if you apply at a non-standard time and thus end up on a waiting list, you will get higher on the waiting list by being higher up the admissions criteria. So move VERY close to a school with a distance criterion, or supply all the relevant information for a faith school etc in order to gain the best place on the list that you can.

you can apply at any time, in any year of school
So you can apply in July for sept, or even arrive mid sept and then apply and your child starts school when you are allocated a place.

The difference is that the class has already been allocated and the places are all full, so unless the school has a space, you won't get one in the school of your choice.

You can in any scenario put your child on the waiting list, and then when someone moves, you might get the place.

So much will depend on where you live. London is a nightmare, but not everywhere is.
If the school is not full, you can apply from overseas, because there is a place, so you can have it, even from a long way away (it that makes sense)

Some schools have a lot of movement, so if you arrived in june and went on a waiting list, you might have a place by Christmas, but in other areas it is very stable. This is not linked to how good the school is.

One minor correction to steppemum's otherwise excellent post. Unless you are on Crown Service you can't generally apply from overseas. If it is an in year application you apply direct to the school. It is up to them to set the rules but most won't accept applications from overseas. They are not under any obligation to do so.

Thanks again for all the great info, ladies! I appreciate it! I think I am finally starting to understand how the system works :)

One thing to add: the LA has a responsibility to "provide a school place within reasonable travel time, within a reasonable amount of time". That means if all schools are full, no places come up "within a reasonable travel distance" (that can mean up to an hour's travel). The the LA can force a school to give you a place even if the school is full. However this will not necessarily be your school of choice.

So your child has a legal right to be offered a school place, it just may not be at a school you would choose, and may involve considerable travel.

Also if your plans are delayed then it can be easier to get a space going into yr 3 (age 7 turning 8) as the restrictions on class sizes may be relaxed a bit and around where we live a number of parents decide to move from state to private school system. People fought to get into tiny catchment area, now there are spaces despite no change to school/ratings etc.

Hi Alexsmama:

US system vs. UK system:

Year R (ages 4/5) = US preschool
Year 1 (ages 5/6) = US Kindergarten
Year 2 (ages 6/7) = US 1st Grade
Year 3 (ages 7/8) = US 2nd Grade
Year 4 (ages 8/9) = US 3rd Grade
Year 5 (ages 9/10) = US 4th Grade
Year 6 (ages 10/11) = US 5th Grade

Year R taught under Early Years Foundation Stage (extension of nursery school curriculum) - really learning through play. They focus on things like teaching letter sounds (phonics/phonemes) and counting (up to 100, by 2s, 5s and 10s and sometimes simple additions - usually pictorially. Some are reading by now others aren't. Mine weren't - one struggled & one got it lickity split). Usually lots of opportunities to come into school as a parent.

Year 1/2 are called Key Stage 1
Years 3 - 6 are called Key Stage 2

After primary most pupils go to Senior School (= US Middle School + High School combined). Usually no middle schools - although some counties do have them. Not sure where you're moving but asuming somewhere big - ?London.

Schools system:

Public schools in UK = US private schools (this is very confusing).

Sate schools in UK = US public school system

State schools vary in terms of how they are maintained - but as a parent on the ground it doesn't make a huge amount of difference, although it can affect admissions rules or curriculum (i.e. if an academy - this is a new type of school which is privately run and not directly controlled by city/ county council education authority & they are not required to follow national curriculum).

My impression from a non-London big English city is that they start education expectations earlier here but they don't seem to make the progress we'd expect in the US.

My advice is have a look at the new national curriculum documents which will be in play from September 2014 and so will apply to your DC. info in box on right here: www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/curriculum/nationalcurriculum2014/nationalcurriculum/a00210036/sosletter. A plain English summary of what you should expect a school to be delivering by curriculum area for each year can be found on Campaign for Real Education: www.cre.org.uk/primary_contents.html. This is 'gold standard' stuff - and the likelihood is that your school won't be working to this - but it's good to know what is possible in an ideal world.

In terms of chosing a school, the first issue to get over is that you don't automatically have a right to go to the nearest school. You go where you meet the criteria (faith, distance, etc...) and there are vacancies. Impartial parent-friendly information is non-existent (but from what I hear this is much the same in western US states where family & friends live). My advice is check out state schools on parent view: parentview.ofsted.gov.uk/parent-view-results - this is a standard questionnaire about the school - click through each question and see what proprotion of parents are happy with various things. Stats speak for themselves really - especially around issues of progress or bullying.

Check out SAT results for school not just in past year, but over a run of 5-6 years. Current info here: www.education.gov.uk/schools/performance/ - this give current information by typing in post code of school or name. Now SAT results are collected at end Y2 and end Y6 - Y2 results are not published but data informs progress measures on same pupils in Y6. On the bottom left box you'll see previous years results - go through these as well. Last year's SATs results are not publically available until December of the current school year. My advice is look for schools that show consistently good results - with the proviso that a change of Head teacher (= US principal) or status (so becoming an academy) can make a big difference.

What you're trying to avoid is a school which struggles to get 60% of pupils to NC Level 4. (information on progress through national curriculum levels - they don't have grades - is here: www.mumsnet.com/learning/assessment/progress-through-national-curriculum-levels. If your kid finishes NC Level 4 in Year 6 - this is roughly equivalent to a B-/C 5th grader from what my brother (who teaches 5th grade in US) could work out. (i.e. a kid who knows his times tables but is a bit shaky and would struggle to multiply or divide 3 digits+ x 3 digits. Kid might know area of square but not triangle/ circle. A child who is roughly reading at appropriate age level but may not understand parts of speech or more difficult vocabulary. A child who can write a few paragraphs, but may not use many words beyond 2 syllables). It is not a nosebleedingly high standard - schools will try to persuade you it's the pinacle of achievement but government floor standard now is 65% of pupils NC Level 4 or better.

To be fair many of the issues I've faced with our school are very similar to what friends are facing with schools in California, Nevada, Arizona & Texas - it's just a different context. Primary schools are generally safe, happy places and my impression is that teachers really do want to help get children off to a good start. Like anything - a parent who's keeping track that homework is getting done, ensuring some extra reading is happening and trying to give children educational opportunities as and when they can (watching documentaries, visiting museums, visiting historic properties, travelling, etc...), and encouraging effort at school, tends to have a child who does well. My impression here is that the 'educational establishment' feel children either are bright or they're not (they're born that way) and that extra work, practice, etc... is not believed to resolve this. For me this is a huge cultural conflict as I genuinely believe any child can learn to add, subtract, multiply & divide (with the proviso of no learning difficulties or disabilities)- but you can't fight city hall on this one. You just have to agree to disagree. They also are very slow to identify problems and intervene (for which read that would require spending money which isn't in the business plan) - so a hawk-eyed Mum is a real asset here.

Now at the end of this primary school lark - (really by Year 4) you need to get your 'game head' on and think through your options for secondary school. Some areas (including ours) have a test (the 11+) which is given at the beginning of Year 6. However, that's a while down the road - just make a mental note that you'll have to start research into this around Y4/Y5 - especially if you're in an area where there is this 11+ system.

Admissions is changing and local authorities no longer will be centrally controlling admissions - however it may be an idea to contact the Local Education Authority or visit their website to research your options and get advice on how to proceed. I suspect these changes in admissions control (moving from city/ county council control to individual schools) will mean that really you can't start organising schooling until you know when you are going to arrive & where you'll be living. Once you know that, contact schools in the area - because you'll need to speak to each individual school to see if there are places. Being foreign is a huge help - be polite, apologise like mad, but pump the people you talk to for information.

The only thing I can say is that if you were moving in the US - you'd be facing a lot of these issues as well - so try to keep your sense of humour and keep telling yourself you're not the first person to move and it must be possible.

OOOOoooo

forgot to say real difference is expect religion in school.

Many schools are 'faith-based' - and all schools have daily worship.

Very strange after US system - separation of church & state.

However, having experienced a CofE primary school in technicolour (i.e. 1 hour of school day given over to religious assemblies & daily prayer) you can see what the founding fathers were getting at & personally given the dreadful results from our school I have to wonder why they aren't putting as much effort into maths...

Just to add that the catchment areas for some schools in London can be incredibly small. Literally around 100m. We're looking at buying a house and its depressing how so many houses fall between school catchments and if we lived there we would presumable have to travel quite a way to get to a school with a space. If you know which area you want, and want to buy, start looking early as decent houses within good school catchments get snapped up very quickly.

Try to move & be settled in the January before your son is 4yo. This will give you loads of options. Out here in the sticks we have class sizes that are national average (26) and there's rarely a problem getting into the school of your choice. London & cities are quite different.