6 weeks off is so good for kids.

[Fraxinus]

Agree or disagree?

I agree! My kids seem so much more themselves after only 10 days off school. Less stressed, more communicative, more fun, less whinging. LOVE it.

Phoenix I know several people who have been unemployed for longer than 6 weeks- you get up and make a useful routine.

I used to live in the arse end of nowhere during the hols as a teenager with a mother who couldn't drive.We still made the holidays a positive experience.

Don't agree something as valuable for children as the 6 week holiday should be derided because of adult lifestyle.

Dd is starting a new school inSeptember as she's off to secondary. Still not hell here in any way.

But then dd still sees friends and is in constant touch with them via text and email type stuff. She has always loved school but the holidays are great for her. She has a week longer than me but its never been an issue. After a week of adjustment she will go off on her own and do lots of stuff she normally doesn't get time for or doesn't have the patience for.

MrButtercat - what we're debating here is if a 6 week holiday is valuable for children. It's a contentious issue. It's absolutely not a given. And there's certainly a lot more to it than 'adult lifestyle'.

I don't even know what you mean by 'derided because of adult lifestyle'. I think you're having a go at me, but I'm not sure (there's been lots of posts on this thread.)

If you're having a go at me, you'll need to explain yourself better.

Hulababy - I'm really glad that your DD is enjoying her holidays. But many kids are so anxious about going up to secondary school that they don't relax for 6 weeks.

Also many kids don't have friends or don't have friends who they can stay in contact with over the holidays. Your daughter is very lucky - it's not a given.

I'm jealous of all you guys who are having fabulous time and whose kids are having a fabulous time. But that doesn't mean long holidays are good any more than other kids not having a fabulous time means long holidays are bad.

The question can only be answered by exploring a) what we want kids to get out of the holidays and b) do they achieve that - or rather what proportion of kids achieve that and what happens to the kids who don't.

We've touched on those questions, but not discussed it much in this thread.

As always on MN group-think kicks in, so only people agreeing with the first few posters post.

I don't think the replies on this thread are representative either of the majority of MNers or of the majority of parents.

There's been loads of threads in the last week about how hard the holidays are. Which is not the impression you get from reading this thread.

Children are not adults.

They need downtime and a lot of it.

Schools are expecting more and more from children.They need a proper break from that.As a society we need to look at the needs of children and work round it not fit kids into adult life.

Yes more parents will be working but that is no excuse for criticising or getting rid of something that is beneficial for the majority of children.

We should instead be looking to providing more quality childcare, supporting parents who struggle and helping parents with flexi hours.

Instead the gov would like to use schools as cheap childcare,criticise and cut holidays.

YY Phoenix, the holidays are tough. I have a 14 year old and an 11 year old. Once the routine and structure is taken away it's hard.

Believe me in my RL without exception all parents I know value the holidays- the majority work!

Sparkling then things like youth clubs,street play schemes,children's centres,library activity extension activities,support etc.....should be available but they're being cut.

MrButtercat How do you know that children need downtime?

What is downtime? Why don't they get it after school and in the weekends and in the shorter holidays?

How much downtime do they need?

At what age do they need this downtime? After all school holidays apply for people aged 5 - 17. Do they all need downtime? Do they all need the same amount of downtime?

Should secondary schools have the same amount of holidays as primary schools?

As a 16 year old can have a full time job, it seems a leap to say that 17 year old's need downtime.

Would it be better to spread this downtime more evenly throughout the year? So have the same number of weeks of holidays without having such a long block over summer?

the majority of children - the majority is 51% - how many children does long holidays suit? Are you happy with it suiting 51% and being bad for 49%? Or is there a higher number you think it needs to suit for long holidays to be a good idea?

I agree with that MrButtercat but I know that my 14 year old in particular wouldn't want to go to anything like that. A ,lot of how tough the holidays are depends on what your children are like.

He has his paper round today, at least he has to do that and he has a deadline.

We are only a week in though, and both are still adjusting....

things like youth clubs,street play schemes,children's centres,library activity extension activities,support etc.....should be available but they're being cut.

But these are exactly the things teenagers don't want.

You can't force people to be social and have fun. Holidays clubs / activities are many children's idea of hell.

When I worked holidays weren't a problem at all :) My nanny looked after the kids in term time and in holidays. I didn't even really notice whether the kids were on holiday or not. Life was easy. So telling me that working parents like holidays also does not reflect my experience.

None of the other parents where I worked even noticed it was holidays. We just did our job. And childcare in one form or another took care of our kids.

Phoenix didn't somebody say full time working mothers are only a third so not sure re your 51%.

Re teenagers not wanting that well then they're perfectly at liberty to get off their backsides and sort themselves out.

Most countries have longer holidays,don't expect schools to play the role of childcarer and don't moan as a society.

Yes I think all ages need a lot of holiday,more not less.As expectations / demands from school rise -even more so.

And teachers need it too.

My 14 and 12 year olds have been out with friends at the river mostly. The pair of them are (mostly) relaxed and happy and glowing with health. Both of them also taking the opportunity to have some long lie ins...

If kids need 6 weeks downtime then it suggests there is a problem with schools. A big problem. The answer isn't more holidays. It's a more balanced term time.

My points are nothing to do with working mothers (mothers? Really?). The 51% was in response to you saying holidays were good for the majority of children. 51% is the majority.

I don't know how you know holidays are good for the majority of children. But I was really saying if they're good for 80% and bad for 20% is that ok? Or if they're bad for 30 or 40 or 49% is that ok?

I don't think it is.

Phoenix what are you and your DCs doing all day at the moment that is so grim? I'm all for having a positive attitude towards enjoying school, but all this negativity about not being in school seems so depressing.

There are too many variables to say one way or the other.

There are factors for us that mean DS1's school mates are miles away. I don't like the assumption he is lazy-he isn't. He plays for 3 football teams but that all stops in the summer. Soccer School Summer Camp finishes at 13.

Two years ago we never saw him in the Summer, he spent all day at the park but things have changed.

teenagers should sort themselves out?

But how can they when we treat them like children? They have no money. They can't drive. Very few places would take them as a volunteer. Very few places need a volunteer for 6 weeks.

There lives during holidays is very much like someone who's unemployed.

6 weeks is such a long time. We'd never expect adults to do nothing for 6 weeks. Why not?

And yes most non wealthy parents of teenagers I know don't see them.They're off happily amusing themselves.

This thread is just making me feel crap now.

Sorry but many don't view the holidays like that.I found masses to do on zero budget,no car.Ditto the teenagers of friends now.You can take a bus anywhere round here as a teenager for a £1 to start with.

What you describe is an attitude problem.

Phoenix...is there a Specific reason why your son is not enjoying the holidays? Is he not seeing his friends?

I will wake DS1 up and put him on a bus somewhere then.

Alternatively they can get on a bike/walk.

Sparkling don't feel crap,they are responsible for amusing themselves surely.If you advise and give them experience of this surely they'll get better at it.

Free buses for teenagers here.
I have to say ds 14 spends a lot of time on buses.

I do reading this though MrButter. DS1 is quite happy though, seeing his mates occasionally, playing with DS2, etc. He is absolutely fine, although having his school friends nearer would be better. We get round it by driving him/them about.

He isn't outgoing by nature. I am working on him to join the Air cadets at the moment, he is weakening slightly.