Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Anyone in Wales? National Numeracy/Reading Testing

29 replies

JemimaMuddledUp · 23/07/2013 18:09

Had the results for my 3 DC's National Numeracy and Reading Tests today, and I can't say that I really understand them.

We got a Standardised Score, a graph showing where that score compares to others (Considerably below national average/below national average/National average range/Above national average/Considerably above national average) and an age equivalent score. But the age equivalent scores seem a bit strange, and some of the standardised scores aren't actually on the graph

School broke up today so we won't get chance to ask the teachers until September.

Does anyone on here understand them? Can you explain it to me?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Takver · 23/07/2013 18:43

How do you mean strange, Jemima? It seemed ok to me. We had a chart showing where they were, banded as you describe, with the exact (standardised) mark shown on it, then an 'age equivalent' given below.

DD's seemed to make sense in that the age equivalent matched sensibly to where she was on the chart IYSWIM.

I guess its like a reading age - if you are good at reading, you might have a reading age of 13 even though you're 10, or vv if you're dyslexic, say.

I think if you fall too far away from average in either direction though they don't give any information other than to say 'score over / under X & therefore considered unreliable'. Is that maybe the issue with your dc?

Original poster

JemimaMuddledUp · 23/07/2013 19:04

Yes, they got "unreliable scores" in some subjects, and nothing marked on the chart. Seems a bit of a strange way to score it as it ultimately doesn't tell you much.

OP posts:

Periwinkle007 · 23/07/2013 20:16

I suppose if they got unreliable score then you know if it was high or low?

seems a bit poor of the school IMO to send them out on the last day of term.

Original poster

JemimaMuddledUp · 23/07/2013 20:56

Yes I do know whether it was high or low, but I don't really understand the idea of "unreliable scores". Does this mean that they weren't given an actual score? How can the school prove progress next year if they don't have a baseline score from this year to work from? It doesn't make sense.

OP posts:

Tiggles · 23/07/2013 21:03

I can understand a low score being unreliable, as I guess it makes the assumption that a child had a bad day, but it doesn't seem to make sense that a child gaining full marks had a 'good day' and therefore miraculously got all the answers right, ah except just asked DS and he said they were multi-guess.
The school will have the actual mark that a student got, so presumably they can work from that to get a basic idea of where the child would actually have been placed by looking at scores of their other children vs their standardised scores.

Takver · 23/07/2013 21:03

It seems like lots of dc are falling into this category of 'unreliable'. I think it is because the tests are new, they haven't really settled down yet.

I suspect the reading tests in particular don't cover the range of levels that you get in primary age groups - dd also came out as unreliable in both English (fair play, she has always read well ahead of her age) but also in Welsh where I would say she is really within the range of normal.

Tiggles · 23/07/2013 21:04

So with an unreliable score did you get an age as well?

Periwinkle007 · 23/07/2013 21:09

I suppose unreliable is probably because they haven't got enough scale. by that I mean is it not likely to be the same as with SATS where a child could do just level 4 SATS at yr 6 and score full marks giving them a high score but one which is unreliable/potentially inaccurate because the scale doesn't go far enough to have fully tested them. Had they sat Level 5 or 6 then they could have had a proper score?

Original poster

JemimaMuddledUp · 23/07/2013 21:13

DS2's came back as "over" an age rather than an actual age. DD and DS1 both got an actual age, eg 10 years 9 months, but DS2's said that it was "above 15 years 2 months". Is there a maximum age equivalent score?

I really wish they'd handed them out last week, we had parent's evening and could have asked. Maybe the school hadn't received the results back in time.

OP posts:

Takver · 23/07/2013 21:20

I suppose they can't say what your ability is if you got all the questions right, only that you are over X.

I think maybe they made the tests too easy, though, as an awful lot of children seem to be in that situation - hence perhaps why they are saying 'unreliable'. DD doesn't read as well in Welsh as a 15 y/o, believe you me and in fact she told me that there was a very long time allowed for the test and she worked a lot of the answers out by deduction where she didn't know all the words used.

Takver · 23/07/2013 21:22

My feeling is that its not worth worrying too much about them - presumably this years tests will let them figure out what worked & what didn't & then in future years they will be more meaningful.

BeeBawBabbity · 23/07/2013 21:25

Yes my daughter also had an unreliable (high?) score for numeracy, not plotted on the graph. I thought the reading ages were wildly overestimated as well.

2kidsintow · 23/07/2013 21:27

I'm a teacher and I understood the scores. My DD got an 'unreliable' score that wasn't marked on the scale. It did say that it was because it was higher than 140, so I'm personally just happy she did well. I think it was a bit confusing though, because it took me longer to read her chart than her sister's. They could have just put a cross at the end of the chart and left it at that, or put 140+.

Takver - I have to say that I don't think the tests were too easy. The maths was pretty typical to the NFER tests that we have used for years in our school, but the reading was HARD! The first question for my year 4s was a nightmare of a multiple question. And the reading text was smaller text than I'd have liked for my children - very similar to what year 6 used to get. And there were several types of genre on the same page. I have my fingers crossed that there is some feedback and they improve for next year.

The children should have had a set amount of time to complete the tests, but I bet anything that some schools didn't follow the test instructions to the letter.

Original poster

JemimaMuddledUp · 23/07/2013 21:30

Yes, I'm a little bit at the results, especially for reading. DS2 is a very able reader in both Welsh and English (we are first language Welsh) but I don't think at 8 he is matching an average 15 year old. DD and DS1's results in reading (DD only had Welsh as she is Y2 but DS1 had both) seemed a little higher than I'd have predicted too. Their numeracy seemed more accurate.

I am beginning to wonder whether the reading tests were either set a little bit too low, or too easy to work out using a bit of common sense as they were multiple choice.

OP posts:

Takver · 23/07/2013 21:31

DD said they had an hour for the reading, I think. She's in year 6, so older, maybe it varied by year how hard they were? She is also maybe better at guessing answers than reading in Welsh!!! (For example her last reading book was Artemis Gwarth & she definitely struggled with it even though she's read it in English.)

Takver · 23/07/2013 21:32

I'd agree that her numeracy results seemed much more to match what I'd have expected.

Tiggles · 23/07/2013 21:38

They should have had an hour for each test irrespective of age, although schools could do 15mins a day if they wanted to.
I have met children who have done below average, and teenagers whose scores were about their age, so I don't think everybody has done 'amazingly above average'. And DS was in the average band for maths, but being the youngest in his year, the standardised age gap looks massive compared to his real age (not so big if he were an older child in the year). Presumably they were late coming out as they had to work out what different children were capable of.

Original poster

JemimaMuddledUp · 23/07/2013 21:40

2kidsintow - do you know whether the school will have the actual score for an "unreliable score"?

DS2 has just finished Y4 so will have presumably sat the same test as your Y4s. We've had a bit of a bumpy ride, he is dyspraxic and barely wrote a full sentence until Y3, sees SALT, has some behaviour issues... he is also on the g&a register for literacy, but I feel I need to keep a close eye on his progress for obvious reasons.

OP posts:

2kidsintow · 23/07/2013 21:42

They should have.

We administered the tests, then marked them.
Then the raw scores were sent away and were standardised for us.

Then returned. Late.

Original poster

JemimaMuddledUp · 23/07/2013 21:45

Ah. That is presumably why we didn't get them until today instead of before last week's parents' evenings (which would have made much more sense).

If the school has the scores (even if they are deemed unreliable) that does make more sense.

OP posts:

2kidsintow · 23/07/2013 21:45

Jemima - did your DS mention doing CATS too?

Our school sends home the results with the children's reports, but other schools don't. My own children's school wouldn't send home the results even when I asked outright for them and I had to have a meeting to go and glance at them.

They give a good indication of how your child is progressing and the expected outcome (no value added) for the end of year 6.

Takver · 23/07/2013 21:58

DD got hers last Friday, so we did at least have a couple of days to ask questions if we wanted. As she's in yr 6, she also got teacher assessed levels in her end of year report, & I think I place more faith in them than these new tests at least this first year!

spiderlight · 23/07/2013 22:01

We haven't had this. DFDS has just finished Y1 - should he have, or is it just KS2?

spiderlight · 23/07/2013 22:01

*Ds. I have no idea who DFDS is!

Original poster

JemimaMuddledUp · 23/07/2013 22:02

DS hasn't mentioned CATS, no.

We usually get levels at the end of Y2 too, but DD hasn't come home with them, only the test results. I think I would have had more faith in the teacher assessments than these tests this year.

OP posts:

Flip

1 2