Ds has got sun burnt at school

[RoooneyMara]

Ds is 10 and was on a kind of sports/open day today at another school.

No one sent a letter about it or anything.

He has come home with sunburn across his face.

Normally I tell him to stay in the shade when it is hot - clearly they weren't able to do this, being outside much of the day.

Hats are pointless when they are doing activities outside - they just fall off.

Suncream doesn't last very long...what can you do?

I feel really upset about it.

Did you find a star rating for it? I've never been able too. Dd prefers ultra sun but I have to say I do like p20 for me

I just spoke to someone with a child in y1, and she too is upset that they were not sent a letter - even the usual type saying 'this trip is covered by the consent form, bla bla' - so it appears most of the school attended it but no one thought to inform the parents.

I don't think that is right somehow.

Teachers aren't legally in loco parentis by the way, not for ages now. that is why we are supposed to inform you of trips, seek permission before administering so much as a plaster and are not allowed to give them a smack.

Ah

Hula, I read on a few websites that it has a 3 star rating for UVA. But as it doesn't clarify that on the bottle, that's not good enough for me and makes me wary of it. Is it a foreign brand, maybe? I think it's only the UK that uses the star rating though I may have made that up :)

Rabbitstew, I completely agree about it primary school children not always being up to the job of putting suncream on properly. Loads of adults don't do it properly, let alone kids! Also agree on smothering them with chemicals and this does worry me but I think that skin cancer is a FAR bigger risk than a Vitamin D deficiency. It's a bit of a myth that you need a lot of sun exposure - 10 mins a day is plenty for most people. And you don't need to expose much skin to make Vit D either...

No, you don't need to expose much skin to make vit D, but you do need some skin exposed without factor 50 suncream or whatever on it, which you won't get if you put it on 1st thing in the morning and it works all day!!!!.... It is, after all, 10 minutes exposure of BARE skin, not skin smothered in suncream or covered up in clothes, and 10 minutes in winter isn't going to enable your body to make much, if any, vitamin D. Most people in this country are deficient in vitamin D in the winter, so if you cover up all summer, you'll just be deficient all the time... Basically, you have to bear in mind that in this country the sun just isn't strong enough throughout the year, particularly for dark skinned people, to make good quantities of vitamin D, so you have to make up for the lack of sunlight all Autumn and Winter in the summer. Also, vitamin D deficiency is actually an issue in this country and a growing one, because so few people are aware it is an issue, and doctors aren't even brilliantly clued up about it, because people got so smug about "curing" the problem when they got rid of the smogs caused by factories and household chimneys and then everyone got obsessed with skin cancer and forgot that there are other things you can suffer from if you go to the other extreme and spend a life hiding from the sun.

It would be ironic if you spent a life protecting your skin from the sun with suncream, only to find that you had increased your chances of other cancers, TB, generalised infections, heart disease, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, osteomalacia, osteoporosis, general fatigue, muscle and bone pain, and all the other things that have been linked with vitamin D deficiency.

"thus inhibiting his opportunity to make any vitamin D, a lack of which is probably a bigger issue for more people in this country than skin cancer)"

Wow. I'd like to see some evidence for that statement, please.

Plenty of evidence if you look on NHS websites, amongst others. More people are vitamin D deficient in the UK than will ever get a malignant melanoma.

"More people are vitamin D deficient in the UK than will ever get a malignant melanoma."

So how many people suffer severe consequences of vitamin D deficiency?

I would not, therefore, as a matter of principle, put suncream on my children every day. I would most definitely avoid them ever getting sunburnt, but would strongly favour wearing legionnaire sunhats, dressing sensibly, avoiding the sun when it is at its strongest, over putting all-day suncream on them every day just in case their school gets the idea into its head that it will keep them outside in the blazing hot sun all day without warning.

curlew - given that vitamin D deficiency is linked to things like osteoporosis, I would say an awful lot. Osteoporosis is hugely expensive to the NHS and an awful lot of people, particularly women, get it. If you have low levels of vitamin D, you don't absorb calcium well, even if you do have it in your diet.

They wouldn't be advising all pregnant and breastfeeding women, children under 5, all people over 65, people who spend a lot of time indoors and very dark skinned people to be taking vitamin D supplements if it weren't a widespread issue.

Nor would the British Association of Dermatologists, Cancer Research UK, Diabetes UK, the Multiple Sclerosis Society, the National Heart Forum, the National Osteoporosis Society and the Primary Care Dermatology Society be advising people that a few minutes in the middle of the day of bare skin in the sunshine in the summer is quite a good idea, if it was thought a bad idea... (see www.nhs.uk/news/2010/12December/Pages/sunlight-exposure-and-vitamin-d-advice.aspx)

Do you know what, if nothing else this thread has made me wonder about the vitamin D/cancer thing again.

There was some thinking a couple of years ago that a low level of vitamin D could be implicated in how people respond to cancer, or the risk of getting cancer - I can't remember much about it now.

So it isn't a question, perhaps, of seeing them as separate issues but as something that presents a bit of a difficult balance to get right.

Ironically some schools' casual attitude to sunburn may actually be contributing to more vitamin D deficiency.

Because some schools don't enforce sunhats past reception age, and young kids are unreliable when it comes to suncream, parents are driven to put all day sun cream on any day where it looks like it could be scorching over lunch.

They might not want to, but they end up feeling that's the only certain way to avoid sunburn (which rabbitstew you say you yourself avoid for your kids).

Likewise the main thing I'd like to avoid for my kids is sunburn, rather than sun exposure in general, and would be happy to skip the all day sun cream if I knew there was going to be any kind of strong line from the school insisting kids wear hats.

As it is, I know that even on a scorching day in July it will be left up to my pale freckly seven year old to remember or choose to wear their hat and that's not something I want to rely on! So there are days I put the all day sun cream on, knowing it's the only defence against the midday sun they might have.

Outside of school it's much easier to be flexible and allow a certain amount of exposure before using a cream, use hats as the first line of defence, that sort of thing.

I think schools think that enforcing hats is only needed in countries like Australia but I think it would be great if they did it here on some days ("no legionnaire hat, no playing out") as it would mean no need for sun cream at school, most of the time.

I agree, swibbleflop.

DD is on 5,000ui of Vit D a day - prescription from endocrinologist and will be on it for the rest of her childhood. Due to the MS links the Scottish government is very hot on children having supplements. The English government is hopeless despite DoH guidelines.

It's often hard to fill DD's prescription - constant shortages - rarely get same brand in a row and sometimes have to pick it up every 10 days when it's made to order and has to be kept in the fridge. Appalling that they can't get themselves organised and give it to all kids.

I wish schools would think about having shaded areas in playgrounds - perhaps Ofsted could add it to their list...

With the proven correlation between sunburn in childhood and melanoma it should be mandatory - as should assemblies on sun safety and as in Australia there should be a no hat = no outside play rule in hot weather. My sister's children are at school there and the school hats are quite something.

RoooneyMara - my SIL was VERY lucky. She was given a 30% chance of surviving 5 years. The melanoma appeared very, very quickly - my BIL spotted a mole on her shoulder and 2 weeks later it had doubled. She had a wide excision and a year of chemo. She now has 6 monthly scans. She was 30 when it was found and has now survived 7 years - she had to wait 5 years before she could try to get pregnant as pregnancy hormones can provoke a reccurence. Was very frightening for them.

Wait, wait ... molested by a giant chicken?

You couldn't make it up, Dalek

Pyrrah - that is indeed very very lucky. I'm so pleased that she has made it this far, and long may it continue!

Still no reply. Just in case anyone was wondering! you weren't, I know

A few of my friends have been complaining that their DCs have got burnt at school or haven't put suncream on at school during the day. The school request us to send cream in and help the children apply (infants) but apparently haven't been doing this.

TBH I also use the 8 hour stuff and it is brilliant, as long as you apply as per the directions it lasts all day and is also waterproof for a short time (you can get the waterplay stuff that lasts 6 hours with 3 hours of that in the water). I have 1 quite fair DS and he has never burnt even abroad, I use the factor 30. I wouold rather do this than have to worry about school doing it. Its more expensive but a bottle will last ages as you only use it once a day!

I don't really understand the vit D issue, surely as long as they are not covered in complete sunblock with hats all the time and are out in the sun this isn't an issue I would assume? Admittedly I don't know all the facts but am curious. Both DCs have factor 30 but are quite tanned this year.

BTW I use Soltan by Boots. You can get lower factors as well, DH and I use a F25 and 15. I have dark skin but still use a F15 at the least.

Both my DCs infant schools spend a lot of time outside every day it is not raining in outdoor classrooms (which I think is brilliant).

Just wanted to say that at DDs school they had a legionnaire hat as part of the uniform. It had to be in school from Easter to October, while in summer uniform, and the children were not allowed outside without it on sunny days.

It was worn on all school trips, sports days, playtime, lunchtime etc. they didn't fall off and it was non negotiable. Whether you did sun cream as well, was up to parents, though you were encouraged to put it on in the morning and could send some in with your child (up to the DC to apply it). This is something you could suggest to school. Everyone wearing the same hat = no arguments.

I would be cross with this too OP. I think the school have handled it badly. I wouldn't worry so much about the junk food or giant chicken but the lack of information and the disregard for the effects of the hot weather would annoy me.

I am very pale skinned and freckly and so is one of my DDs. I've used an all day cream once, and I burned. Although I like the feel of sun on my skin for a short time, I don't sit out in the sun for long, and tend to sit in the shade. I also avoid the sunshine between 11 and 3 on a very hot day, and have taught my DDs this when on holiday.

Sports days in primary school were difficult. I put cream on them, and they wore hats, but we suffer in the heat, and after a day of being outside in the hot sun they would both feel very ill. I agree with one of the posters above that it is very important to provide shaded areas in school playgrounds, so that children can enjoy the sunshine but can find shelter when it gets too hot.

MrsMelons - Vit D is a massive issue in the UK, especially considering the crap summers we have had the last few years.

DD has her levels tested on and off by her endocrinologist. The first time it came back as insufficient, she had spent 2 weeks running around on the beach a few weeks previously. The endo said that probably the majority of children in the UK would have insufficient Vit D. Although you only need 13 minutes a day of sunshine between 10am and 3 pm on bare skin for your body to produce enough, that isn't just on the 10 days a year that it's warm enough to take a jumper off in the UK, but 13 minutes every day.

If you can get your GP to prescribe supplements then I would. All children are supposed to take them until the age of 5 at least (recommended by NICE and the Royal College of Paediatricans), but because of shortages - and doctors just not thinking or knowing about it - they rarely are prescribed. My GP mentioned that until he'd done the prescription for DD he hadn't actually been aware of the guidelines and recommendations. Pregnant and breastfeeding women should also take supplements.

Low Vit D can cause muscle weakness, fatigue and also lower the immune system due to immune cell damage (especially resistance to diseases like TB).

Multiple Sclerosis is one of the things they believe may well be linked to Vit D levels - it's almost never seen in countries at lower latitudes. Edinburgh on the other hand is the MS capital of the world (my mother has MS - and grew up in Edinburgh).

So, it's not just the risk of things like rickets, there are other more subtle reasons to supplement.

For me it makes sense - DD is very fair skinned and like me tends to turn red and doesn't tan. I would prefer to protect her skin with sunscreen and a UV suit and give her supplements (it's in liquid form and only 1ml a day so easy to get into them) than risk sunburn and a higher melanoma risk.