Exciting school trips for chosen few only

[lainiekazan]

It has come to my notice that this year certain children from dd's school have been on a private tour of Houses of Parliament with MP, visited National Gallery and learnt about a painting with a curator, and spent time at a famous company. And other trips too.

It is the same six children. I have quizzed dd why these dcs have been picked but she just says the Head said he had picked them out for "enrichment".

Now, it's a big school and obviously not every child can have such opportunities, but I think some transparency would be nice. Dd says these dcs are not "top table" people, and as far as I know they have no home/learning problems, so what is the school's reasoning?

Would it be awfully cheeky of me to ask for some clarification? Dd would have loved to have participated in these trips, but although she is one of the cleverest, she is also extremely quiet and would never push herself forward.

Actually I am quite pissed off about this as superficially it looks as if the chosen few are the dcs of uber mummy helpers and also those who are quite self-confident.

How big is your school and what age is your daughter / children making visits? I assume you are a London school for visits you've mentioned? You say "it has come to your attention", how did your find out about all these trips? Were they last minute and children chosen have parents on hand to give permission / transport them?

OP, I think in your position I would feel the same but I don't know how best the school can handle this. My DD (y1) was invited to go on a puzzle day at another community primary school this term. Just 5 of them from their year (in a 3 form entry school) and apparently chosen (according to the permission slip i needed to sign) because of their interest and ability in numeracy. I was obviously delighted my DD went but felt as if I (and even she) needed to keep it a big secret. The school didn't ask us to but it isn't something you raise with other parents. But I have some good friends amongst the parents of my DD's friends and, after the day, they queried why their DC had said my DD had gone to a different school that day...I felt as if I'd deliberately misled them! I think you are perfectly within reason to ask fr clarification about the aims of these visits and how the children were selected. What I would suggest is that you avoid any accusation that "the chosen few are the DC's of uber mummy helpers" unless you are sure of your facts and complaining on this basis.

Yes, you should ask.

Dd gets invited to various extra things (she's in care) - its for various reasons - mostly performance, helping out in the library, commitment to reading 20 books (Carnegie thingie), engagement in school in spite of challenges etc.

Other children get invited as they may miss out in families for certain reasons - dd's friend (also in kinship care) has a mum with terminal cancer and she doesn't get the chance to go anywhere out of school.

My son recently went on a trip to Bletchey Park. He had attended a work shop for more able children in science. I agree that it is incredibly arbitary which children get picked. In our school they picked the top three children each class in a science test. Undoultably there is little difference in the ablity of the child who came 4th and the child who came 3rd.

I don't think that more able student schemes are ever fair and there is no doult that they generate jelousy.

"Actually I am quite pissed off about this as superficially it looks as if the chosen few are the dcs of uber mummy helpers and also those who are quite self-confident."

For some of these workshops the child does have to be quite self confident. They have to do difficult tasks with children that they have never before. There is a level of self reliance and maturity required that is well beyond the typical eleven year old.

I feel that its very hard to identify a top 10%. Children have multiple different types of intelligences. Prehaps what is most serious is that wealthy middle class children tend to be more ahead at reception level and get on to gifted and talented lists more easily. Summer born children and boys tend to lose out as well.

If you are asolutely sure of the facts: that the trips are what you think they were and always the same children then yes I'd jolly well ask alright.

Come at it initially from the angle of bemused puzzlement. Try and reign in the (understandable) pissed off bit at first until you know more. Keep that back if/when when needed

I can see how it could be a special trip here and there for various reasons for the chosen few but the same kids again would make me

I don't think there is any reason why you shouldn't be able to ask how children are selected for these trips. Just keep it as an 'out of curiosity' type question rather than a 'this isn't fair' type statement if that makes sense.

As you say, LaurieFairyCake, if the children concerned had some issues/background problems, that would be fine. But I know they have not picked those.

It's not the top 10% or whatever, either, as dd would definitely be well within that, and pupils from lower ability sets are among the chosen few.

I found out about the House of Commons trip because it was in a leaflet sent to constituents by the MP - the school hadn't mentioned it. Dd told me about the National Gallery because she was particularly disappointed that she didn't get chosen for that.

I do appreciate that perhaps they have chosen the most outgoing pupils because I suppose they make a better impression. Tough on the quiet ones, though.

Of course I would never go in all guns blazing or with an aggrieved tone, but I do feel this matter deserves some clarification.

sorry - didn't mean to imply you might go marching in and be aggressive. I agree though that there should be a certain level of transparency over trips like this. If there are ways of selecting children then this should be clarified. It may be there are perfectly good reasons for these children being chosen, they may be completely random name in hat type things but I don't think there is any harm in asking, as you say your daughter was disappointed not to have one of the opportunities. The school may need to rethink how they select children, perhaps spread the opportunities around a bit more.

Maybe they askd who was interested and drew lots, maybe they asked children who had shown an interest in politics or art.

How do you know that the children picked haven't got some issues/background problems

No implication taken!

Actually I've just seen on Headteacher's page of school a rather belated note about House of Commons trip. I expect I'm not the only parent raising an eyebrow about it.

It's really not sour grapes, because I'm sure most pupils would have liked to have gone and not everyone can be included. But - just picking kids because you like them doesn't seen awfully fair.

Otoh, ds has gone through his school career with his name magically pulled from the hat every single time there's a trip. I know there are no hats - the teacher just chooses.

Maybe some kids have demonstrated an interest in politics .

There are dcs at the school who do have issues (eg bereavement) and they weren't included.

The ones on The List are the ones always in the front row, leads in plays, with mums big in the PTA... if you understand the type. Not academically stellar, but confident.

I guess I have answered my own question, when I think about it. Dd cowering at the back would be a poor choice compared to a more sparky kid.

I guess the PTA parents are the ones providing transport for the trips and this guarentees that their child gets a place.

I feel you should ask the head what is happening and if you have no joy then you should go to the govenors. The scruffy kids on free school dinners with disinterested parents should get opportunities as well. In fact all children should get opportunites.

If half a dozen children are needed to go to the Houses of Parliament, then I expect any school to pick children who are confident / willing to speak up / prepared to ask questions - I would say that was a big factor in selection.

If there have been lots of trips for small groups of children though, then I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask the question about who goes / how you get to go on these trips.

However, by suggesting it's anything to do with a parent helping on the PTA, I think you would be making yourself look somewhat ridiculous.

"I guess the PTA parents are the ones providing transport for the trips and this guarentees that their child gets a place."

That really, really is bollocks, you know! And offensive bollocks to boot!

OP- do trad a little carefully "it's not fair" and "it's always the same ones picked" could possibly be child speak for "Miss x pulled names out of a hat and I didn't get picked"

DD went on a small group trip to the House of Commons and met our MP. It is because she is on the school council. Could it be something like this? Are the children who went on the gallery trip members of an art club at school or something?

BTW, for infant and junior age children, I would absolutely consider being part of the school council as demonstrating an interest in politics. Why the rolly eyes? Do you think it's impossible for children of that age to have an interest in such things?

I didn't mean that necessarily PTA offspring get picked because of their parents' input, but I think the Head does know these kids better, and dd says he doesn't know her name. She says when Head comes in classroom, he always approaches the same children and praises them and has a little chat, but never says anything to others.

Obviously I take things with a pinch of salt, but dd isn't really prone to hyperbole.

Our school has had a few of these 'special trips' which are only for a small group of children. School council children go and if there are any extra spaces then Teachers choose who else can go.

It's always hard to decide who from your class gets to go. I usually choose children who will be reasonably well- behaved, will enjoy the trip, have good attendance etc.

It's difficult, I don't enjoy doing it and always feel a bit of a meany.

FWIW PTA children do not get any special treatment, not in our school anyway.

It would be interesting to know how these 'special trips' are funded. If the criteria for picking the children is not clear then there is a danger of insitutional racism or disablity discrimination or some other type of illegal discrimination.

For example its perfectly fair and legal to have a rewards trip for children who have had 100% attendence and punctuality, signed reading diary, correct uniform or most housepoints. A school would be on shaky ground if they had a special trip exclusively for black children.

The thing is the Head picks the School Council!

Oh well, that's just wrong. Our school council is voted for by each class and two reps from each class are chosen.

Yes, I think I'd want clarification too. It doesn't seem right if it's always the same children for all the trips. Our school has in the past had extra trips by invitation (I remember one to a gallery for extension art children, but at least the reasons for choosing were clear).

I haven't spotted any recently, so perhaps they don't happen any more. And perhaps that's because it is difficult to be seen to be fair. Especially when there are no obvious selection criteria.

That is odd - re the school council. Here, the dc volunteer to be put forwards, then they have to write a 'vote for me' pamphlett, then the children from each class vote. Generally where there are a lot of volunteers per class, I think the staff tend to suggest that someone else has a turn once it's time to vote again.
Not that being on SC seems a good reason to get to go on the trips, to me. IMO, being on the SC is their "privilege" for that term / year, trips should be a different issue.