Does anyone think phonics teaching has any harmful effects?

[housework]

I am happy to be persuaded either way but would be and would be interested to hear all views. Am thinking about dd and whether phonics has worked for her.
DD is 7, reads very well and comprehends what she is reading on the whole. She passed the Y1 phonics test getting the magic 32 so many children got. However, she's a poor speller to the extent that an Ed Psych has suggested testing for dyslexia. I'd like to do some more spelling work with her over the summer holidays. Today I did a bit of the Alpha to Omega placement test with her. She spelt crash as 'Krash' and chip as 'thip.' I let her do the next words 'splash' and 'thrush'. She spelt these correctly. With chip, I think she knew there were 'th', 'sh' and 'ch' to choose from and just picked one of them.
The above and other incidences make me wonder. Does phonics stop a child trusting their instincts? In her case, I think she is not considering how a word looks to help her spell it. She will always fall back on a phonetic spelling unless she already knows the spelling. If school had focussed more on rote learning, regular and rigorous spelling tests, would she spell better. At the moment they're all still ploughing through phonics because the failures have to re-take this year. But there are no expectations re spelling, barely any spelling tests, no words given to learn. And dd is the type that will only do the work if school have set it.
I'm just wondering where to go from here. Thanks for reading.

CecilyP if the child correctly wrote (first time or after a prompt) I would just say "yes ...well done!" if they still didn't get it right even with a prompt I would write it for them.

So it's OK to say it makes a sound, but not to say it says a sound?

So what sound does it make, Hulababy?

I would say that it was a letter

With the Debbie Hepplewhite phonics scheme we are taught to use the phrase.... In this word is the code (as in phonetic code) for

And if they asked you what letter, because they know their alphabet song, after all?...

No rabbitstew I would not say a letter makes a sound or says a sound

Are these correct in terms of the sounds to of to make (for the alphabet)?

www.st-thomasaquinas.milton-keynes.sch.uk/soundswrite.html

Well if they know they wouldn't have to ask

What sound does it make? Again I'd ask the child...but we do teach letter names, as per the Debbie Hepplewhite scheme....so if I needed to provide it I would say it is the letter W (name) and usually makes the w (wuh, but without the uh bit said) sound in words.

So you teach letter names, Hulababy. But mrz doesn't until later on.

mrz - what do you mean, if they know they wouldn't have to ask? They may know their letter names, that doesn't mean they know which letters go with which names, you've said so yourself, by agreeing that children learn their alphabet song at pre-school but don't necessarily attribute those names to physical letters.

I would imagine they accurately demonstrate how to say the sounds represented by those letters daftdame but I can't access the videos on this laptop.

mrz How would advise parents to refer to the letters of the alphabet?

What would they say for example when playing 'I spy' ...'something beginning with....' (letter sound like the one is the link I posted above)?

^ cross posted.

mrz - can you please just clarify what you WOULD say about an individual letter, rather than telling me what you wouldn't say? If the next question after being told, "it's a letter, " was "which letter?" what would you say? And what if the child foolishly said, "what sound does the letter make?" what would you say to them? Would you tell them off for thinking letters made sounds?

Yes, the Debbie Hepplewhite phonics scheme does teach letter names as well as sounds. It's the scheme the school has bought in at the start of this year and it is, so far working very well for our school and definitely a big improvement on just following the letters and sounds scheme. But there are other schemes out there and they will no doubt have different approaches.

CecilyP if the child correctly wrote (first time or after a prompt) I would just say "yes ...well done!" if they still didn't get it right even with a prompt I would write it for them.

But following on from the scenario upthread, what if you had been kneading pastry and you didn't want to get gunk all over the pen?

As I said if it was the scenario detailed up thread I would be unaware of what the child had written.

Hulababy Debbie recommends not teaching letter names until children are secure with phonic knowledge.

community.tes.co.uk/tes_early_years/f/12/t/612302.aspx

mrz - in Y1 generally fine she told us, and before if we feel it is appropriate. She has been in school for whole school sessions plus 1:1 a few times over the last 18 months. We are only an infant school, so Y2 at most, and we were taught by Debbie herself to use letter names with the children. Wen she did demo sessions with our own children she used letter names with Foundation (spring term).

That thread is interesting as it is different to what we were shown. Unless she felt that my that stage the children were fine to use the name. She also used the alphabet song, from her CD.

Still hoping for someone to explain to me what they would say to a child without secure phonic knowledge who wanted to know what letter it was they were clutching in their hand? And why do letters not make sounds? In the link to the tes site mrz posted, I noticed quite a few teachers talked about letters making sounds. I'm quite certain at least that letters represent sounds - the letter c on its own represents the sound see, surely? Because if I saw the letter c, it is certainly the sound I would make if asked what it was.

The letter C makes the cuh (but said without the uh bit) in somecwords, sometimes ssss, etc.

Yes rabbitstew sounds are represented by letters and combinations of letter and yes people make sounds in response to seeing written letters and words.

If a child asked me what this is (holding out a letter w) I would tell them just that ..."It is the letter "double yoo"

Hulababy most teachers will sing the alphabet song with their class but they won't teach the relationship between letter name and shape until later when children are secure with basic phonics (so before they get to the house or aeroplane stage)