How on earth does a child learn to read when he can't speak properly?

[fuzzpig]

DS has a significant speech delay - at an assessment a while ago it was about a 14 month delay. He is improving, and is actually quite chatty and making sentences at last, but is still way behind where he should be at 3.9 - eg says "addoo" instead of thank you, I am "bubby" instead of mummy. All other aspects of his development are on track.

He turns 4 in late August and starts reception early September. I am mostly feeling ok about this now as I feel reassured by the school (which is brilliant, DD is in yr1).

However I am really confused as to how reading/phonics will work when he can't really speak or make a lot of sounds. We do exercises recommended by SALT such as being a 'toothy rabbit' to make the f sound, but this doesn't carry over into his day to day speech.

He does recognise a few letters (sounds, not names) thanks to various games/toys, but I don't really see how it can progress from there to blending etc, and I don't know if there is anything I can do to help once he starts reception.

Any teachers/parents have any advice or experience in this please? :)

Forgot to say, we have a 'transition meeting' soon to discuss his move to reception, with the inclusion teacher, so obviously we will be asking about this, but I'd like some wider views and perhaps some ideas on specific questions to ask!

My ds with autism could read long before he could talk. He taught himself though so I'd imagine he used his memory to work it out.
Dd again with autism learnt to read as well and then fitted the phonics teaching to what she already knew.
Sorry I've no advice but wanted you to know a lack of speech doesn't necessarily lead to an inability to read.

We taught our eldest to read early because he had huge problems with speech. He couldn't say 'train' or 'Mummy' properly, but he did consistently use his own version of the words, so we knew he understood what he was trying to say.

He picked up the connection between letter sounds and joining them to make recognisable words very quickly, and his speech improved overnight. It was almost as if he needed visual clues as opposed to just picking up, what were to him, random sounds.

Hi

I can second that reading seems to be separate to speaking ability.

My ds is 4.5 and has a speech delay (was 12 months but is catching up) and has pretty much taught himself to read simple books. He loves 'reading' in the morning when he wakes before he comes into me.

I am rather hoping it will correct his speech (I.e. if he sees how it is written down). Not sure it will though. He also does it by memory, although he has learnt phonetics at nursery.

Loop, Isildur. Sounds hopeful for my ds.

My DS doesn't have speech delay, but we definitely noticed an improvement in his pronunciation when he started understanding phonics and reading, especially th/f/s sounds, tr/ch, and things like yeyyow for yellow.

My db learnt to read before he could talk. It actually encouraged him to learn to write because he could then be understood. He was writing in sentences at 3yo.

I agree. Learning to read can help with speech as children become more aware of the sounds in words. Phonics have def helped my ds (6), He is an ok reader (ort6), although the problem I have found is getting himvto use it in everyday speech but this isimproving, his spelling is also good. I was concerned for the same reasons as you butbmy fears have not materialized.

yes agree with others. DS has severe speech disorder (developmental verbal dyspraxia) and I was very anxious that he would struggle to read. He picked the sounds up very quickly and although he still can't pronounce all sounds correctly he is a very reader for his age. Can I recommand that you support the phonics method with a CD (this is the one we had: www.elc.co.uk/Jolly-Phonics-Jolly-Songs-Book-CD/108854,default,pd.html It was helpful to do this at home. DS is also very good at spelling and I can't figure out why he can spell difficult words that he can't even pronounce properly but he does! He is 6 and in year 1.

I can second the Jolly Phonics CD & book. Helped my dd no end. SALT were worried she wouldn't be able to learn to read and were pushing for a specialist unit. However she has been absolutely fine and I agree with the other posters - he speech became a lot clearer as she learnt to read.

What is the cause of his speech delay? My ds was similarly delayed due to verbal dyspraxia and learning phonics improved his speech hugely. In his case, he could make most speech sounds (struggled with 'f' too though - I remember doing the bunny teeth!) but just couldn't co-ordinate them consistently into words. We did daily speech practice with him (Nuffield Dyspraxia) and it did take what seemed like an eternity for it to affect his day-to-day speech. You just have to keep going with the practice, though, it will happen eventually!

In terms of reading in reception, his school (and myself) didn't really push it too far but he still knew all his basic alphabet phonic sounds and could blend simple CVC words by the end of the year. His speech had by then improved enough that he could say most of the phonic sounds in a way that we could understand even if his pronunciation wasn't 100% perfect and he stammered a bit. He actually struggled much more with numeracy, but I think that was largely because he wasn't ready/able to do it until his speech & language caught up a bit.

He finished reception below average on several of the EYFS goals. But now coming up to the end of yr1, he has got clear speech and is reading orange band books. He still struggles a bit to express himself and his language skills aren't great, but he his improving rapidly.

DS1 learnt to read when he was young and learning phonics actually helped to correct a lot of his mispronunciations. He has ASD and i think taking words apart like that was the first time he'd really properly heard some of the sounds.

DS2 is non-verbal and can read some words. Being unable to say the words doesn't necessarily preclude being able to recognise them.

Thanks for all the replies, I feel quite reassured and positive now!

WRT the cause of his delay. We don't know. The SALT said that it is quite common for delays to just be delays IYSWIM, without any tangible cause. He has had various developmental assessments and they aren't concerned with anything else, definitely not thinking of autistic spectrum which was a concern when he was younger. He has regular audiology checks because of frequent infections, they said he has a very slight hearing loss/possible glue ear but not enough for grommets and they said not enough to have caused such poor speech.

I had briefly wondered about the verbal/oral dyspraxia but got nowhere when I mentioned it - is there anywhere I can get useful resources or info on this? How does it get investigated/diagnosed?

I do have that jolly songs CD so I'll dig that out, I'd forgotten about it!

OMG fuzzpig. I think you are me (and your ds my ds!), down to having the jolly phonics CD somewhere

We have just moved and I have no idea where it is...

My DS is finishing reception and was diagnosed with 'probable' verbal dyspraxia at the age of 2.5 years. When we started ST he had only 8 out of the 40 odd phonetic sounds he was meant to and had the expressive language of a 4-6 month old.
Things seemed really grim, but with 2 years of 121 ST ( nuffield program for Verbal Dyspraxia) and lots of hard work from him and us, he was able to start at the state school his sisters attend last September.
He's a Jan baby so not the oldest, but not the youngest either and he's come on brilliantly. He couldn't read, didn't know his alphabet but could count to ten when he started reception, and now he's reading everything and is on book band 4, which we are really pleased with.
His speech is about 90% intelligible and he's been signed off the ST.
We havent done anything extra at home with him re reading, but his phonics knowledge is excellent from school and he regularly tells me about 'split diagraphs' and the like as he's reading his books!

The crucial thing is can he HEAR the different sounds. ie if you say "where is our bum?" or "where is your mum?" does he understand?

ds1 actually had quite advanced language, but his articulation was horrendous and took many hours/years of SALT and daily homework to sort out. At age 3 he talked a lot, but only had a very few sounds (consonants). We could understand him, but no-one else could. He couldn't say sh, s, th, f, l, v, w, r, c.. and lots more!

With him learning to read really helped. We used Letterland where each letter has a name Annie apple and so on. Then when he was getting frustrated because people couldn't understand him, he could tell us the letter it started with, or even spell out the word with magnetic letters. His nursery teacher said he would struggle with phonics, but actually she was completely wrong. He was brilliant at phonics, just couldn't make the sounds himself.

I don't know whether this early experience made him more aware of sounds and literacy, but it certainly didn't hinder him. He loves languages and has a real talent for picking them up quickly. He's just done his GCSEs and is apparently on track to get A* is English and German.

Don't despair!

My ds's diagnosis of verbal dyspraxia was as a result of typical characteristics in his speech. (It couldn't be and wasn't diagnosed until he had enough speech to assess). He did things such as using glottal stops in place of consonants and became less intelligible the more he tried to say. He had his first words at a normal'ish time (18 months or so), and would have bursts of speech development but would then lose it. Always three steps forward then two back. Some days he was better than others too. He also would appear to be fighting with his mouth to get words out.

The main difference as far as I can tell between a "delay" versus a "disorder" such as DVD is if it's a delay then speech & language are developing in the normal way it's just that it's taking longer to develop. Whereas with a disorder it is developing in an abnormal way, my ds's use of glottal stops apparently being a prime example. There's probably a fair amount of overlap between the two, though, and then different SALTS all seem to have different ideas on the subject too!

Just re-read that, and I've made it sound as if ds was talking from 18 months! He most definitely wasn't. He had only three words ('No', 'Mine' and 'more') until he was 2 1/2. And from then we only got a smattering of word fragments for the next year. He is a July born and was about 50% understandable on a limited vocabulary when he started school. He was about 80% understandable by the end of reception. He also had a very noticeable developmental stammer which finally went about half way through yr1. He's now 100% understandable and speaks in clipped tones as if he's done elocution lessons!

We also did the Nuffield Verbal Dyspraxia programme. Dull as dishwater but seemed to work.

Ds suffered some degree of language delay (expressive and receptive) as well, but this seems to be resolving itself without any specific support.

The main thing is that it was a developmental problem and he doesn't seem to have any long term problems beyond him being a bit behind and needing to catch up.

very similar here Guinevere. Funny that, my DS also had only three words (Mum, Yes and Woof) from 18 months up to 2.5, and no babbling just some grunts and nnnnn sounds. Also followed the Nuffield method, and yes it is repetitive but it works. Now in year 1 and his speech still needs to 'mature' a bit (he speaks with a babyish voice) and struggles with some sounds (DS had mostly problems with his vowel sounds, all his vowels were a loose 'ah'). And yes with time, as the child gets older, it becomes clearer if it's a speech delay or a disorder. Only this year (6 years old, year 1) did his speech become understandable my most, and I am sure that learning to read has helped him in some way .

I found this site was very helpful. www.helpyourchildread.net

My child is progressing really well now. He's had his share of problems and since has been diagnosed with autism and adhd.

I can't help but I do believe that children can read even if they can't talk. Deaf children for instance learn to read even though they can't hear the sounds, now they may not be learning to read out loud in many cases but they are actually learning to read. So what I am saying is that I think if I was you I would follow exactly the same process with teaching him to read and then he will probably be reading very well mentally but not out loud. as his speech gradually catches up he will be away. In the meantime the reading in his head will open up a whole new world to him.

of course I have absolutely no experience of this but I think that is how I would try to look at it if I was in your position.