how is reading taught in other languages?

[Periwinkle007]

just curious, is it also through phonics?

Pint as in a pint of milk? You don't pronounce it ai, it's "i" eye

p-eye-nt

In the conversation above it was the teaching of reading which was being described as haphazard. I described our English language as crazy. You only have to join any discussion of Dr Johnson's erratic spelling to get some idea.

learnandsay I believe it is not 'crazy' or erratic. Even what was previously described as 'chaos' in science subsequently has been found to have pattern in it, it is just bigger.

Dr Johnson has a lot to choose from re.spelling. Our language has a number of roots (from different invasions, traders etc), different dialects, slang terms and easily adopts 'foreign' words. There are patterns, but several of them. Standardised spelling was just one restriction, but even then the standardisation evolves as we are becoming more cosmopolitan. Then when groups of people do isolate themselves their language evolves differently and we get more variation...

There are patterns but also variations and attempts at standardisation but English is not erratic as there is cause and effect, reasons behind variation.

I think partly it is probably the children are a bit older but it does sound like some languages are naturally more obvious/easier/logical for learning to read than English. Our language is most definitely a mix of different based words, some germanic, some latin and so on and some with just very odd spellings which does make it complex. It may be possible to say it is completely phonetic (if you write enough rules/document all possible sounds then any language is) but that doesn't mean it isn't more complex for learning to read than some others. I remember studying Spanish at school and spelling it is a doddle to be honest, only a handful of letters ever appear as a double letter and it was easy.

Would children learn to read English in a term if we waited until they were 6? I doubt it, more might pick it up a bit quicker but not all children are fluent readers or on chapter books by Christmas of yr2 are they and that would be the equivalent.

Periwinkle I think waiting to teach reading would 'fail' those children who are very interested at a very young age and practically taught themselves (or those who are well on their way with the early reading skills) and you would end up with a huge variation of reading skills between different children.

Early years teaching is supposed to build on children's interests so if books and the written word generally is one of those interests, that would include teaching reading.

that is my opinion too daftdame, my reception daughter could read when she started school and my youngest who starts this autumn is doing well with her reading already too. I am not sure waiting would be of any benefit, that is what I was trying to say.
I think the other languages are probably easier to learn to read rather than it being linked to their age at starting school.

Brought up in Germany I also learnt to read aged 6 and it was a doddle. The Kindergarten I went to before that did not teach any letters and sounds. German does have the advantage of being very logical and there are only a few sounds that have to be taught eg sch, ch, sp, ie, ei, pf.

My poor UK born 3 year old on the other hand has phonics rammed down her throat on a daily basis despite the early years curriculum allegedly being play based. And as far as I am concerned English spelling is idiotic but quaint. (I'm allowed to say that, I'm forrin )

Parewinkle Sorry, I have a bit of a habit of 'violently agreeing' with people!

Periwinkle ! Typing can also be awful!

Jewel I also don't agree with the 'ramming down throat' ...makes me sick!

lol - so long as you agree with me you can do it in any way you like!

jewel fairies our preschool does do some phonics but I think they just do 1 letter a week from January so never get that far through them. they certainly only 'introduce' them rather than teach them.

jewel, meaning a nursery is doing repeated phonics sessions? Is the teacher a fully qualified early years teacher and is the nursery attached to a primary school?

Yes to all (daily phonics sessions, fully qualified early years teacher, nursery attached to primary school).
Sorry, my statement was a bit forceful... dd2 doesn't mind the session in the least. Nor does she show any interest in reading and writing yet. It pretty much goes over her head and her favourite activity at the moment is cutting things up. She takes this very seriously, covered her room in confetti sized pieces last night and was very cross indeed when I removed the sharp pointy scissors from her (that dd1 lent her...)

I guess my point is that as a foreigner I struggle with how early schools in the UK start with formal reading and writing. There will of course always be children who are very keen to learn letters and sounds and will be good readers when they start Reception and it is only right to give them age appropriate assistance. But as far as I am concerned the majority of children aged 4 (and some are barely 4) are not ready. That's where the play based stuff comes in, although the schools I have experience of totally ignore this and push early reading and writing.

In China they typically learn to read what they call Pinyin first , which is Chinese words written in the Roman alphabet and then they learn the Chinese symbols (Chinese doesn't have letters- they symbols are words or syllables) by matching the Pinyin and the symbol.The introdction of Pinyin correlated with a massive increase in literacy. The Chinese come under criticism for the focus on rote learning in primary school but there is little other option. To be considered literate you need to be able to read and write 2000+ symbols.

I had no idea they did that in China. Character languages quite frankly amaze me, like you have said you need to know such a large number to be fluent.

If you look at how spread out reading schemes are is it any wonder that some schools (not all) set out to conquer reading in earnest right from the off? If schools went from 0 to chapters in one term, like the Swiss, they wouldn't have to.

but we couldn't could we in English - it just wouldn't be possible whatever age the children were I don't think, 0-chapters in 12 weeks of learning English couldn't happen

Challenge, anyone, mrz?

learnsandsay Some of the Horrid Henrys have 'Early Reader' editions. They have more illustrations, split the text up more and have shorter chapters. From what I can tell the text is the same.

On some banding systems they come out with a lower reading age. Part of how we develop as readers includes concentration span (hence shorter chapters) and the scanning, skimming skills etc you develop with your eyesight as you mature and through practice. Some typefaces are apparently easier to read too. (The dreaded Comic Sans!)

I expect you could do the same Early Reader editions of other Chapter Books for children.

I'm not sure if the Swiss have dumbed down the notion of a chapter book to make going from 0-chapters in 12 weeks possible/easier

can anyone relatively Swiss, (in nationality or location,) confirm or deny it?

The point is many European language have transparent orthographical systems, German Spanish, Italian, Greek, Turkish & Welsh ...which makes it much easier to learn to read and write than in English and other opaque languages.

Research by Seymour, Aro, and Erskine compared the ability of young children to read real and non words in English and 12 other languages. The results showed that children from most European countries were accurate and fluent in reading before the end of the firstl year in school, in all except the more opaque orthographies of Portuguese, French, Danish, and, particularly, English.

thats interesting Mrz. I had to pick between Spanish and French when I was 11 after doing a term of each and I (already identifying I wasn't good at languages) picked Spanish because it seemed SO much easier to read and write than French (which had too many accents for me).

I'm amused by the idea of a non word in any language. But I know what you mean.

Slightly different perspective again here. I was brought up speaking, reading and writing German and started learning English aged 11. Then learnt French at 13. I wasn't any good at either to be honest but something clicked when I was about 14 and I got the hang of English (going on to study and live in the UK). Whereas five years of French at school left me with barely enough knowledge to order a coffee...
So I'm thinking English is a tough nut to crack for young children but not that difficult to pick up as an adult. I'm a naturally good speller and just accepted the weird spelling pattern of English words on a case by case basis. God knows how I would have coped with learning to read in English. Dd1 is doing fine and takes things in her stride. She is very creative and this includes her spelling! . My guess is dd2 will struggle more because she is very logical and English spelling certainly isn't!