Moving and changing schools - help me choose between these two!

[Idonthaveenoughtime]

We are moving to a new part of the country and have been to visit a couple of schools. I've got a list of facts and no decision yet, maybe you can help me decide which school should be top of my list? Am I looking at the right things or are there things I've overlooked that would help me make the decision? I only have two that are local to where we will be living. Neither is brilliant and exactly what I want but I need a school I can walk to as DH and I share the car.

One school is a large primary school. It has a good ofsted rating consistantly for the last two inspections since a new headteacher took over.
Less than 2% of children have free school meals as its in an area of new housing with lots of people moving in and out of the area, don't really think thats relevant though.
Ofsted 'school dashboard' data shows that KS1 results are consistantly above average.
However KS2 results are average (around 83%), HOWEVER of those achieving level 4 65% are also achieving level 5+ which is way above the national average. Should this send alarm bells ringing? I'm wondering if the affluent background of a lot of the kids means that there is a lot of home tutoring going on while the school rests on its laurels, either that or the school neglects less able kids? My dd is an august baby, and the ofsted report does mention that the school focuses on challenging average and able students. Summer born babies are well proven to be more likely to be behind their classmates due to being nearly a year younger... The report also mentions that the school has a lot of children with SEN (17%) as it is very well resourced for this. Could this effect results?
I'm not one to be taken in by appearances but the school is extremely well resourced generally, the classrooms are beautiful, nice bathrooms, very clean, loads of outside space, an adventure playground and outdoors classroom, lots of children's art everywhere.
Unfortunately we were shown round by a receptionist as it wasn't an official open day (is that normal)?? She said if we had any specific questions she would take note of them and pass them to a class teacher / the head to answer. She took us wherever we wanted to have a look and as it wasn't an open day I think we got a 'true' picture of the school and everybody seemed well behaved and the receptionist greeted children by name so despite being a large school its seems staff are well acquainted with the children.

The second school is two schools on two different sites, infants and juniors. The infants school is ofsted rated outstanding and an academy (previous ofsted rating was 'good'). The infants school won me over initially as the headteacher who showed us round seemed fantastic and extremely enthusiastic, HOWEVER, the headteacher is leaving this year and there are no ofsted reports showing what the school was like before she joined as she has been there at least 10 years so this could be a massive risk that standards aren't going to drop like a stone. The deputy head will be the new acting head, no idea what she's like. I like the fact that they have a big emphasis on science (I think a lack of science teaching was one of their criticisms in a previous ofsted report so they've worked on that) and cover interesting topics like space ad circuits (the other school seems to be purely about biology / ecology) although I suppose it doesn't really matter all that much at this age!! The curriculum is very well developed in terms of integrating writing, reading and maths into other subjects and they even programme robots in year two according to the headteacher, or maybe that's just a a bit of a gimmick. The ofsted report says that the school has successfully focused on raising attainment for boys and summer born children.
The school did smell a bit (?!) no idea why, and looked a bit run down, the displays were looking a bit tatty and looked like they had been up a long time, but then it is an ofsted outstanding school so I suppose appearances aren't everything, and as a small school perhaps it just doesn't get as much funding?
The children seemed very well behaved if a little orchestrated for the open day, the headteacher greeted them by name and started conversations with them. The children were happy to talk to us. It seemed quite small and friendly.
Our one real concern was raised by DH about the things they used to teach maths, it's like a square piece of plastic with holes and pegs? DH has a maths background and can't understand at all how that is meant to help kids learn maths and wasn't impressed. I have no idea if the other school uses the same apparatus to teach maths though, it might be national curriculum thing.
DD also came along and she decided she liked this school best (I think because she was allowed to join in with the class and play with the instruments and toys while we were shown around, which sold her on it) Which makes me feel a little worried about letting her down! (she wasn't able to attend the other school viewing due to nursery scheduling).

However, and please call me a snob if you want, I was in the park with my dd and a lot of kids and a large group of mums came out of the school into the park, and please don't take offence as i'm not being classist here because you get bad behaviour everywhere, but a lot of the kids were really rough (swearing, spitting, hitting, and one of them stole my daughters ball). My dd is impressionable and this sort of behaviour in her potential classmates out of school concerns me, especially if she's going to be going round their houses. Apparently only 7% of the kids have free school meals at this school but the school is in a more deprived area in general. I just don't expect this sort of behaviour in my dd who is (at the moment anyway) very gentle natured.
KS1 results are about average overall (about 88-91% achieving level 2) with one year doing much better apparently due to some more able girls coming in and out of the school, but a large minority of the children are achieving more than expected of them in writing and maths.
The Juniors school I haven't visited yet, it is rated good (last two reports were satisfactory due to high staff turnover). The KS2 results are above average but few children achieve better than Level 4, certainly many fewer than at the primary school, so it's the opposite of the primary school! Again, I have no idea why.

Have I looked at everything I need to look at?
Is there a clear winner here or are you as confused as I am?
How would you pick one other than flipping a coin?

Thanks for your time reading my long post!

Hello there, well I wrote on monday gone about the stress of picking between the ofsted outstanding school EVERYONE wants you to go to, and the local good school but perceived as rougher and a dump apparently.

At the ofsted outstanding school we got alot of what they expected parents to do, children should be doing this, they should be doing that. So again onus is on parents ( as it should be at times) but that sort of set me off a bit about the teachers not needing to stretch the children.

I suppose its difficult because you're trying to make a judgement on something that only time will tell.

Could you go back again and this time arrange to chat to the head and maybe your DH could discuss and look at the maths policy with them and examples of work. Also there response to your request would soon show you how they view questioning parents.

It does sound that there is not alot on paper between the schools but in reality all schools are going to be different.

If the academic side is positive then I would start nit picking at things like:

pre school and after school care ( may not need it but one day you never know)

PE at school and Sports activities outside of school
Out of school activities
Languages
Music

Access and print of a few news letters from the previous term its amazing what schools reveal to the parents who are already there.

What is the PHSE like, pastoral care etc- I know anti bullying policies are mandatory but see if they have anything else such as SEAL,

What are there awards and sanctions like- do they award just for academic merit and attendance - in our so called not so decent school - Friday pm a children from each class is nominated for achieving something non academic - dance, art, sport, etc.

Your comment about the tatty displays at the ofsted outstanding is interesting as in the past those who achieved outstanding were visited less, so that could be an indication of being a bit complacent.

The ofsted outstanding school was visited 5 years ago, whereas the good one with a bit of a reputation - last year - so that's interesting to see from that point of view.

I found some of the children at the ofsted outstanding school quite rude to the teachers in class ( whereas they laughed it off as being inquisitive) but my DS is very shy and quiet and felt he'd never get a word in if some of the more confident ones answered all the time.

Whereas at the other school the teachers were very firm with putting up hands, taking turns and many said 'I have not heard from this table so would like you all to talk for a minute and then come back to me with answer. Which I liked

Oh and I saw the head taking nail polish of one of the girls who had walked into the hallway- i don't know why I liked that.

Not sure if this is any help but hope it gives you a few ideas -good luck its so hard x x x

OMG its so long sorry x

"the things they used to teach maths, it's like a square piece of plastic with holes and pegs?"

I'm guessing this is Numicon which is fantastic, in my experience. Depends what they were doing and what they are using it for, but for things like number bonds to 10 and doubling/halving numbers I've had great success using it. Also, it's weighted so you can use it with balance scales for addition/subtraction questions (put a 9 piece in 1 side and a 4 piece in the other - what do I need to put in to make the scales balance?)

I like the first school!
The second one could be ok, but it all depends on the Junior school, so more of a gamble.

I'd vote for the first, totally normal for secretary to show you round, we sometimes ask y6 kids to do this job too. No alarm bells re results those percentages look good and normal to have ks1 and ks2 diff. If they attract sen it's prob because they are good at it, if your child is lower ability this is a good thing they should have more resources. Ofsted reports only give a snapshot, how you feel is important.
The ht leaving the other would worry me. The park behaviour would worry me - arevthey like that when it's not open day?

Definitely Numicon, it's excellent and very adaptable. Can be used with many abilities and age ranges, brilliant stuff.
www.numicon.com/Index.aspx
For me at his age it is all about pastoral care and the 'feel' of a school. Its' ethos is very important.
If they are academically similar then you have to choose which one is the most attractive 'package'.
You must have had a gut reaction for both as you walked round, go with it.
Would the size make a difference - I would always choose small myself.
Remember results are always highly dependent on each cohort of children. Rather than looking at levels you need to look at value added/progress from where they started.