am I worrying about nothing?

[MrsOakenshield]

OK, this is probably a bit contentious but I would like to genuinely know if I am worrying about nothing.

Will my child (white British midde class) struggle to make friends at school where she will be in a minority? We live in a bit of a middle class pocket of what is described as a deprived area, with an ethnic minority majority if that makes sense (only about 5% of the population here is white British), many of whom are recent immigrants (so a lot of primary school children will not have English as a first language at home),

The closest 2 schools are not mixed at all (either socially or ethnically), and I do know of one child who moved from one of these schools as she didn't make friends and there was no culture of playdates etc - it's this bit that really concerns me as DD is an only child and I want her to make friends and be able to have children round, and go round to theirs.

There are schools which are more of a mixture, socially and ethnically, which would be great, but the catchment areas have shrunk in the last few years so I doubt we would get in.

I really would appreciate some comments from those whol have experience of this. I feel I am working myself into a pickle. State education is completely new to me, I am finding the size of the schools and buildings alarming in itself! (I could fit my old school, aged 7-18, into most of these buildings!) But, if we can, we would very much like DD to go to a local school, but I am worried about the social side of things.

Thank you. I'm at work now so will dip in and out and have a proper look at lunchtime.

I think perhaps it is worth asking the school or if they can put you in touch with a PTA person. My daughter's school is 50% 'ethnically' non british if that makes sense, out of those children I would say the vast majority of the parents are very keen to mix and get together at the park etc, a few are more doubtful/shy and I honestly believe it is primarily due to confidence in their English skills as they are friendly when I speak to them. The children do mix pretty well but there is some inevitable automatic grouping (by the children themselves) at playtime into their language groups I think which is a pity but my daughter is still only in reception and she has made good friends with a couple of them and I can only see those friendships getting stronger and more mixed as they move up the school.

There are inevitable cultural differences and I think you are perfectly justified in having concerns. Language differences having caused too much of a problem as many of the children learned to speak English in preschool and through immersion in the classroom are now confident and fluent. My daughter doesn't even know some of the children speak more than one language.

Play dates are often quite hard when they first start school because they are normally very tired. We haven't had many but she has made lots of friends and often sees people at the park.

Hi MrsOakenshield:

Our DDs go to a highly multi-cultural school that is a veritable United Nations.

Things we parents all have in common: we all want a good education for our children & we all want the best for them (including a nice circle of friends).

I suppose the question to ask yourself is why are you judging the school on its mixed ethnicity? Why do you think children from other backgrounds don't desire to have play dates or seek to arrange them?

My DD's best friends are Filipino, Chinese, Indian, Afro-Caribbean, Korean, Sri Lankan and Syrian. The families are amazing - some are here because of harrowing circumstances in their home countries and are incredibly grateful for the normalcy British life offers them and their children. All are very aware of international education standards and bring that pressure onto the school (indeed it is largely the 'foreign parents' who politely or otherwise encourage the school to raise standards, improve communication with parents, etc...).

Not being prejudiced - but just picking up on a trend I've been quietly observing in the playground these last 7 years - white British boys are quite often the problem. (articles/ research backing this view on FSM white british boys here: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8485016.stm and Joseph Rowntree Association research here: www.jrf.org.uk/media-centre/white-british-boys-most-persistent-low-educational-achievers-practical-measures-could-i).

I can't speak about having a son, but as someone with 2 DDs (and I see you're talking about your DD) I've personally found a wide circle of friends from a variety of backgrounds to be an incredible experience. It's a real honour being invited to their home for a play date or a meal, to be invited to a traditional Indian dance gala, to come along to Chinese Saturday school or Korean Saturday school, to attend festivals with friends and equally those kids enjoy more typically British things with our kids, like picnic & playing in the park, days out to theme parks, block party for Royal Wedding, days out to castles/ historic houses, etc...

My advice is start each day off at school saying hello. Make a point of introducing yourselves to parents and learning your DDs friends names (I do forewarn you that in Year R this can take months - both DDs were terrible about remembering names at first). Throw a birthday party for your DD and invite as many as you can. Make the first move - and invite a good friend over during the first half-term or Christmas break. If you do not behave as if being friends with them is a problem, you'll most likely find they won't mind either. Friendships with children take a while to form (maybe 1 or more school years - we certainly found Year R children played alongside each other and Y1 friendship groups solidified) - but friendships between parents take years, shared experiences (good or bad) and some work.

Please do not expect Day 1 or even Day 60 - to have your DD settled into a large group of friends and having all sorts of play dates.

One piece of advice I was given, which did help break the ice, was to have our DDs join after school clubs, take dance, take up an instrument, join a choir, join rainbows, etc... thus having friends both within and outside the school. [a useful buffer when friends at school are a bit off with you - which does happen I'm afraid]. Over the years it has meant that pretty much anytime we're out and about (and we're in a huge city) we always run into someone one of the girls knows.

Finally - please remember starting school really is harder on the parents than the child. Primary school is a lovely time, but isn't always smooth sailing. If it goes well - fantastic. But if it isn't going so well, try to remember it is only 7 years of your DDs whole life - which if the papers are correct is likely to stretch to 90-100 years. If primary wasn't great, senior school may be better.

HTH

I think it's harder when there is a very dominant ethnic group - ie a lot from the same culture. It can be hard to penetrate some groups when the social side of school revolves around festivals and religious rites of passage. An ethnically diverse school with many different smaller groups is easier to integrate into I think. Large clusters of parents who only talk to each other in their own language are harder to get to know. My son's last school was very diverse, but with no dominant groups and it was fine. My (much younger!) sister went to a school dominated by one culture (5 years ago) and she was moved because it was nearly impossible to socialise, even at playtime.

thanks so much for your replies. The 'problem' (for want of a better word!) I have is that the schools are not mixed - they are predominantly one culture/ethnicity, which is not ours. (My private school in leafy Herts was more multi-cultural than these schools.) I would say there are maybe 2-3 white British children per class, if that.

I suppose I am concerned because I know of one person for whom this was an issue, and I know no-one else whose children attend either of these schools - so I don't know if what happened with her child was a one-off or more common - and I have read similar stories here on MN, that the social side of things may be affected by this, and as DD is an only, I'm perhaps rather senstive to this.

If the schools were genuinely multi-cultural I would be thrilled to bits. But they aren't!

sorry, I'm not being terribly articulate.

lim1bd - sorry, my post took ages to load and I didn't see yours before posting - yes, that is exactly it - there is a dominant culture.

I think it sounds like a potentially serious problem. If there is a very predominant culture/ethnicity (particularly if those children speak to each other using a language your dd doesn't understand) them your dd could struggle to socialise. If there are only 2-3 white British children in a class, she may not get on with them because that isn't enough children for her to find a friend she clicks with if the others are keener to socialise with each other.

Schools that are properly mixed are fine, my dc attend one of these. In fact, both my dc have best friends who are not white British and all the children mix well because there are so many different cultures and nobody is the minority or left out. Ds came home asking if he could adopt the same religion of one of his mates

thanks for all the replies.

If you've got access to a more diverse school it would be an easier bet to go for that.

Growing up as a minority figure in school does have difficulties for a child no matter how friendly parents are or how hard the school tries.

unfortunately we are now no longer in the catchment areas for the more diverse schools (basically west/south-west of us - more diverse; north and east not diverse at all), up until 3/4 years ago it would have been no problem but the catchments have halved.

I've been in this position while not living in the UK, and came to the conclusion that being the only 'different' one (or one of a tiny minority) in a school composed of one ethnic/cultural group is not a good thing for children.

We were in Japan, and DS was the only non-Japanese child in his kindergarten. People were friendly, but he stuck out a mile (tall, blond, blue-eyed, and obviously non-native speaker of Japanese) and ended up feeling isolated, and found it hard to make friends. We then moved him to a different school which was 'international' but still majority Japanese: very few native English speakers, but lots of children who were 'different' in terms of race or language - mixed Japanese/other nationality families, other Asian or European backgrounds etc - and although there were very few children just like DS, he felt much more at home as there was enough diversity for him not to be the odd one out.

For that reason I would be wary of sending a child to a school in the UK or anywhere else where one group dominated by 90% or more. I wouldn't be at all bothered by a school which was just 90%+ not white/British, as long as there was a big mix of other languages/nationalities/ethnicities, and so more chance that children will make friends of different backgrounds.

Obviously there is not always a choice, and it is more common and just as difficult for children who are the only ones in their schools who are not white and British. Really, it depends on quite how mono-racial/mono-cultural the schools are, and whether there are strategies to help children mix. But if there were an alternative, even one where one group formed 80% of the school, that would be better than 90 or 95%, in my opinion.