AIBU to be cross - reversing letters

[CrystalSinger]

How come my DS is 9 and neatly finished Y4 and no teacher has noticed (or corrected) the fact that he consistently writes some letters as capitals.

He tells me he does this so he doesn't reverse them. Ie he always writes D (as in anD) so he doesn't accidently write a b instead of a d.

He has no learning difficulties and is doing very well at school. Writing is his weakest subject and he's a 3a in it.

This is my 3rd DC in this school. And the 3rd DC to not be taught the absolute basics.

The standard of education does seem to be somewhat lacking......

My DS has just shown me his completed half term homework. A poster where he has mixed capitals and lower case in a number of words also managed to reverse a j. However he only seems to reverse and misplace capitals when writing in non cursive style. Probably due to school teaching cursive from reception so does not know the rules for non-cursive. It may be obvious to us but probably not to them.

I think you need to draw breath for a moment because I think your frustration is in danger of getting in the way of looking at the problem in perspective - and that is not a criticism.

There could be several reasons why it happens. 1 is shit school. Sounds unlikely given that he is a level 3a in writing (his worst subject). 2 he is a lazy boy when it comes to writing and simply isn't bothering to correct what he knows fine well is a mistake. 3 he has a learning difficulty such as dyslexia in a mild form and this is a coping strategy he has developed (you also mention terrible spelling in several of your children; dyslexia does tend to run in families). 4 he could have a learning difficulty such as dysgraphia and, again, this is a coping strategy he has developed. It can be difficult to clearly identify learning difficulties, even at this age, in able children, as they have already developed strategies that are masking their problem or, due to ability, they still perform within expected norms.

I think before you get into an entrenched blame game, which helps no-one, you should discuss what concerns you with the school. Blaming the school - especially in front of your son - can only create problems later.

JB - Why on earth do you think a different school will want my DC?

In all the govs meetings I've sat on 'Late Joiners' have been raised in various ways as a problem.

If you read the TES it's very clear that lots of teachers believe late joiners are a problem.

Schools don't want kids on the SEN register. They especially don't want kids on the SEN register who have moved from a different school.

HeggieHog - he is not 'slipping capitals' in his work. He is consistently and always doing it. He says the teacher does nothing about it. The teacher has certainly never raised it with me. He's certainly on no handwriting interventions.

I expect it to be the focus of his writing (given that he's doing relatively well in the rest of it) and to be commented on in every piece of writing he does until he changes.

How can you give a level 3A to someone who doesn't use capital letters correctly?

He can change. He corrects it for me when I comment on it. Why wouldn't he correct it for the teacher?

Adoptamama - it's 2. He isn't bothering to write correctly. And he doesn't think it's at all important, and now it's easier to do it wrong than right. There is dyslexia in the family - and he doesn't have it. Nor does he have dysgraphia. His spelling is bad purely due to poor teaching. I know what the school's spelling policy is, and it doesn't work.

I'm just wondering, if he is consistently and always doing it, then how have you not noticed before? Have you not looked at his writing?

I think, if he's a bright child with no SEN then this should be fairly easy to rectify with lots of practice writing words containing the letters he gets confused, especially if he's writing joined-up.

Also, if he knows which way round the letters go, but is choosing to using write capitals instead, then you need to tell him to stop being so lazy!

CrystalLine what utter rubbish. Schools do not have a problem with children changing schools. The only time schools might make note or attempt to dissuade a new child is if they have been excluded on numerous occasions or have made false allegations against staff previously. No one gives a monkeys if your child changes school. SEN or not.

You have no clue what his teacher has or has not been saying to him. You were not there. She may gently remind him, she may suspect dyslexia and be asking other staff what other methods she could try add all else has failed so far. Hounding a child verbally or in writing because something isn't quite perfect is counter productive and would be flagged by OFSTED. I would be horrified if I saw the same comment on a piece of work over and over. Since children just need time not badgering.

Literacy levels are not based on handwriting. Therefore a child can be much higher than a 3a and still be doing this or are your assuming that your ds is lower than this but that the school are over inflating the results?

If you really believe that schools don't want kids on the SEN register then you and your child are with the wrong school.

I am a Governor too and I have never heard late joiners being referred to as a problem...EVER!

And my son is on the SEN register (not ever heard it referred to as that before) and his school have bent over backwards to help him.

Secondary schools on the other hand DON'T really want him but are too chicken to say that to the LEA. That is a whole other topic though, in the main I have found MS primary schools to be brilliant with my DS and others like him.

Yes you do get children who have problems transferred in but they are the exception rather than the rule.

...and why in earth would a different school NOT want your DS?

Can you imagine the discussion in the staffroom
"well, we have a new boy starting today. He is above average in everything, writing is his weakest subject and even in that he's already a 3A"
"fantastic, he will fit in well, another HA boy, great for the statistics, perhaps he plays football, we could do with a new goalie"
"there's just one problem, he reverses his b's and d's"
"sorry, don't want him, tell him to go somewhere else, will you"

Hmm, not very likely, is it!

I think you have a huge problem your attitude!
I know schools which welcome new joiners, or where it is so everyday that it is no problem. Also I know lots of teachers and schools who welcome children with SEN, and do everything they can to help them.

OP may I ask if you have had your son formally and properly assessed by an ed. psych for dyslexia - is this why you are so certain it is not? Because his writing habits do suggest red flags (and the fact he can correct it for/with you does not rule out dyslexia) - and the fact you say dyslexia runs in the family makes it even more of a consideration.

Any school would welcome him. Like you so eloquently say he's HA.

It's his sister they wouldn't want.

I know my school actively discourages new joiners. They still get plenty. About 20 a year. But they don't want them.

I know the problem with my attitude - I expect school to teach my kids the basics. This is no longer in vogue. Happiness is prioritised over achievement. A broad and balanced curriculum prioritised over the basics.

That is what the HT has told me.

Adoptamama - he has not been assesed for dyslexia because he has none of the signs of it.

But a dx of dyslexia would not change my attitude at all. I'd still expect school to address his reversing letters if that was his weakest thing.

If I had £400 to spare I can think of much better things to spend it on then an EP report.

Schools must provide a broad and balanced curriculum by law but that doesn't prevent teaching basic skills. Without basic skills children cannot access any curriculum.

OP, you haven't answered why you've never noticed the problem with the way your son writes d and e. Have you really just noticed?

SpanielEyes - I'm sure that the HT tells the parents to go away while telling the teacher to make him welcome.

I'm also sure she tells the govs late joiners are a problem while not saying that to the teachers.

In a big London school the last thing you need is another footballer. Which he doesn't play anyway.

Are you really saying when you get a child moving from a neighbouring school you don't think there must be a problem for them to move.

I know the HTs talk to each other before each move. And I know my HT slags off the moving family to the new HT. theres no fresh start when you move in this borough.

I've really just noticed. He doesn't write much at home. He types quite a bit. He does all his hw independently and I dont check it over.

I teach year 4. I have pupils who persistently insert random capital letters, or use lower case instead of capitals. I will highlight them when I am doing detailed marking (one piece per week/two weeks). I will not highlight it if I'm marking only to that lesson's learning objective, which is all other daily marking.

B, S and W are the most common stray caps in my class, with y and n the most common stray lower case. When doing detailed marking it will be flagged as a 'going forward' action.

We do daily handwriting exercises.

What else would you like me to do?

BTW - it takes me anything between 4 and 6 hours to do a detailed mark on a class set of 32 books. Doing it more often is NOT an option!

My school does handwriting once a week not once a day.

They mark in detail once every 3 weeks. But that means highlighting stuff on the APP grid not correcting things like cap letters.

The stuff in their regular books, if it gets marked, is marked to the LO.

Oh, and on the matter of moving 'in year' ... do please tell the school that you are leaving!

When one of mine moved, the school office found out only when the new school requested all data on the pupil on the Thurs before end of term that Friday!

If you still have handwriting problems in Y6 you get write from the start in early morning work.

I'm not leaving!

Much to the HTs disappointment.

I find your attitude fascinating, OP. In my 12 years of teaching I never heard anyone say that late starters were a problem, nor late starters with SEN. If it were a new child coming into my class, I would welcome them. If the parent explained that they were concerned about certain gaps in the child's learning I would listen, assess and see what I felt. If I felt it was necessary I would then put in place targetted interventions. How would it benefit anyone - child, teacher, school - simply to 'blame the gaps on the previous school'?

The HT slags off leaving children to the new HT .

And you want your children left in that school?

Horrendous.

I can tell you right now that would not happen in our school.

That is a whole other topic to the mixing up of some letters, sounds like a poor school all round....or a shit HT anyway!

Thing is you have two choices, accept it while making a fuss (and hopefully annoying that awful Head) or move schools.

If the Head then makes comments to the new Head you go to town with him/her.

I can tell you right now that most schools DO positively welcome children with SEN, don't judge all MS schools by the one you have experience of. Our school (not in London) is fantastic and will welcome children of all abilities. We have children coming in every now an then and I haven't heard them ever discussed as "a problem".

I think you have a crappy school sadly.

"Adoptamama - he has not been assesed for dyslexia because he has none of the signs of it."

Er - yes he does. From your own posts you have a son who capitalises letters mid word, reverses letters, and is a poor speller. He has - again from your own posts - siblings who are bad spellers and a family history of dyslexia.

So yes - in my professional opinion based on 20 years of teaching, including in SEN, your son does actually have possible signs of dyslexia and is a child I would consider at risk for the condition. Your refusal to even consider a learning disability and, instead, dismiss your son as lazy and the school as failing rather shocks me, tbh. It is unusual to come across a parent so determined to refuse to even consider seriously the possibility their child's difficulties may be due to a learning disability.

I sympathise with the issue of financing a ed. psych test - the costs are disgusting and put it out of reach of many famillies. I reiterate your best course of action is to approach the school in an open-minded frame of mind, raise your concerns about his spelling and actually listen to their professional response. You say you are more than willing to 'do your part' of the home-school partnership; this is part of it.