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Original poster

Phonics test - sudden concerns and how to help

160 replies

Dentvincent · 23/05/2013 17:59

My DD came home today with a note to say she wasn't making expected progress in phonics. She is Y1 and is due the Phonics test in June - which I have only really heard about on mumsnet until this note. It was a bit of a surprise as it has not been mentioned at all till now. She is on orange book band and pretty much always gets all her spelling right. In fact I thought she was doing really well. They have given me some websites to look at with her which I've done tonight. She seems to be great on all the real words - but I think 'knows' them now as they look pretty simple and so isn't using her phonic knowledge. The a made up word comes up and she just tries to make a real word out of. How can I help her best and should I be a bit annoyed that someone hasn't mentioned it before. She is in the top but one group in the year and at every meeting they have said she is flying

Thanks for help

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mrz · 26/05/2013 17:15

"obviously we trying to say n o s not n o s e"

I hope not ...

Original poster
Dentvincent · 26/05/2013 17:41

No what I mean is:word NOS sounds different to word NOSE

OP posts:
Original poster
Dentvincent · 26/05/2013 17:42

And she says NOS is the same as NOSE but they have spelt it wrong (they obviously being whoever has written the word)

OP posts:
mrz · 26/05/2013 17:57

I can see why they are concerned Dentvincent

daftdame · 26/05/2013 17:59

Dentvincent Your girl sound as if she knows what is what. If by some blip she doesn't get top marks I don't think it will be down to what she can do, rather I think she may possibly be trying (too hard? re. spelling correctly) to meet expectations. Hopefully you will have been able to reassure her she just has to read the words that are there, even if they seem totally wrong!

Original poster
Dentvincent · 26/05/2013 18:01

Could you explain mrz. As an adult if I read NOS I would either assume shorthand for numbers or a child who can't spell NOSE. I'f she is not told whether the words are real or imaginary surely it is as easy to assume that it has been spelt incorrectly. And if you agree they should be concerned, should it only have been bought up the day before 1/2 term?

OP posts:
Feenie · 26/05/2013 18:04

As an adult if I read NOS I would either assume shorthand for numbers or a child who can't spell NOSE.

Not if you had been told it was an imaginary word.

And if you agree they should be concerned, should it only have been bought up the day before 1/2 term?

Indeed - here you have a very good point. I would be cross if I was only just being told.

mrz · 26/05/2013 18:27

perhaps they didn't realise that their teaching was ineffective until they began practising for the test

Galena · 26/05/2013 18:27

mrz I'm intrigued... I've just had a look at Obb and Bob to see if I thought DD would cope with phase 5. A word came up which was 'reshied' - obviously a made-up word. But how would you expect a child to pronounce it? REE-shYed? RESH-eed? Just interested really.

I was a KS2 teacher for many years, but didn't really have any phonics training and I'm not entirely sure what 'synthetic' phonics are. I'm also worried now because DD loved Reading eggs...

mrz · 26/05/2013 18:40

for non-words in the check any phonically plausible pronunciation is acceptable ...

www.motif.org.au/index.php/home/test/4

Galena · 26/05/2013 18:47

Ta :)

LondonJax · 26/05/2013 18:55

The nos - nose issue with phonics Dentvincent (I think, am not a teacher and am only going by the good old Alpha blocks and DS who is also year one), is that the 'e' at the end of nose means you pronounce the 'o' as its name not its sound. So the 'o' in'nos' would rhyme with cos - like cos lettuce. The 'o' in 'Nose' would rhyme with 'no'. I think.

Galena · 26/05/2013 19:01

'course, we confused everything with DD by teaching her the letter sounds first, but giving her a name, Skye, which didn't follow the rules...

Should have called her 'Fred'

Original poster
Dentvincent · 26/05/2013 19:07

Exactly Londonjax (that's what I think!) DD if I now turn round to DD and get her to sound out she does it correctly ie rhyming with cos lettuce.
But when she just saw it as a word she assumed it was spelt incorrectly.

Agree daftdame in so much as she just cannot understand why she is now reading words that mean nothing when she has spent the last few months reading words that do. I DO see the point of the test but I think she is struggling to put it in context as just a phonics exercise not a 'sounding out whilst reading book' exercise where the word you have to sound out is in the midst of a sentence and a reader can use context as well as phonics to read the word iyswim. obviously this fully tests phonic skills and it is this She needs to concentrate ( not quite as fun as reading a book I guess!!)

OP posts:
LondonJax · 26/05/2013 19:10

Sorry Dentvincent, my post didn't answer your question really. What I meant was, when your DD is tested I assume the teacher will be looking for children to read or sound out N O S for example, realise they don't recognise that word and say they believe it's a made up word. Not try to add letters in their head to make it into a word they recognise or sound it out incorrectly. All I do with DS if he's making a word fit what he knows is stop him, take him back and ask him to sound it out to break the 'I know what that should say' rather than what it actually says pattern. Not sure if that'd help or not.

mrz · 26/05/2013 19:46

Out of the quarter million real words in the English language Dentvincent how many do you think will mean anything to your Y1 child? Will she dismiss them as wrong and try to turn them into words she knows that have similar letter patterns or have the same beginning ...

We all read non words everyday without thinking about it - the hairdressers called Cutz or the breakfast cereal called wheetos non words are everywhere.

www.spelfabet.com.au/2012/12/nonsense-words/

pooka · 26/05/2013 19:57

LOVE the latest link mrz! Grin

mrz · 26/05/2013 20:40

Galena I'm not sure which rules you mean but Skye has three sounds /s/ /k/ /ie/. The is a spelling for the sound /ie/ so no need to call your daughter Fred.

daftdame · 26/05/2013 20:49

These real life nonsense words have context (be it a label or name) though mrz and you feel that the alien name context of the test is 'distracting'.

mrz · 26/05/2013 20:54

No daftdame I don't feel the alien name context is distracting I feel the pictures are distracting ... very different things.

Galena · 26/05/2013 20:57

I guess so. I think it was tricky because to start with she knew 's' 'k' 'y' and 'e' as 4 letter sounds, but now she does know that ye says 'ie'. I shan't change her name just yet then Grin

daftdame · 26/05/2013 21:01

Ah that makes more sense. However surely the children are very familiar with illustrations in their reading books, do you think these pictures are distracting too?

I must say the illustrations were a huge motivating factor for me as a child, I especially liked the full colour prints you get in old books. Just made me want to read...

mrz · 26/05/2013 21:08

mrz Sun 26-May-13 08:38:12

Yes the teacher will tell the child when words are real or the names of types of imaginary creatures [rolls eyes at that part] I think the pictures are an unnecessary distraction and would rather they weren't there.

daftdame · 26/05/2013 21:15

I don't get your point mrz , I already acknowledged that it was the illustrations you felt were distracting with my 'Ah that makes more sense'. This does fit more with what you were saying about real life 'nonsense'.

I just don't get why these pictures are more distracting than the ones in reading books, unless you think they are distracting too.

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