SATs in year 2 - is it really necessary???

[Notcontent]

Ok, so I am not British so find a lot of things perplexing!!

But I just find the while idea of testing 7 year olds a bit pointless and also have concerns that at such an early stage judgments may be made about their ability - because really, at 7 children are at many different stages of development. To cite an example, my dd didn't get reading at all in reception. She slowly started getting it in year 1 and then this year, in year 2, she has really flown through all the levels and is now a great reader at lime level. Her maths is ok, but she is just starting to get it, and I hate the idea of someone making a judgment about it.

mrz and ipad all seems rather political if you ask me.

I notice that the Level 1 and 3, if gained in the Yr 2 assessments, would not be sub levelled. These are exactly the levels whereby a parent may expect different / extra provision to be made for their child since it is outside the expectation.

mrz my comment really concerns schools giving out all the information they have recorded regarding a child's attainment. I would expect descriptions anyway regarding what exactly my child has achieved.

Whether you feel more comfortable calling something a 'low level' 2' rather than 2c doesn't really say anything greatly different, apart from being a little more ambiguous in terms of the delineation. Anyone would rather be ambiguous when communicating to a parent and apparently more decisive in record keeping would suggest to me that their record keeping does not hold up to scrutiny. Or are you saying your records use the same terms for attainment as you use with the parents of your pupils mrz?

^ that should be 'Anyone who would rather be ambiguous...'

In what way "political" daftdame?

Daftdame - it must vary from school to school as DS (in yr3 now) got his levels with A, B or C included in his end of yr2 report...

It's not a matter of being more comfortable it's about it being more meaningful - even on MN some parents have believed a to be the lowest and c the highest levels...

simpson the official printout for each child which is sent with the report only states level 1 or level 3 not a, b or c.

Sorry not read all the pages but in answer to the op question imo no they're not.

mrz political in the sense of managing information in order hold on to power over decision making. Decisions can only be questioned / held to account if someone knows what those decisions are.

If you are genuinely seeking to be more meaningful that is a good thing, I would not argue with that at all.

However 'dumbing down' information should not be taken as a policy decision when communicating with parents. I would be happier with teachers using the professional terms and giving explanations.

Is it dumbing down to provide clear accurate information rather than hide behind meaningless letters?

mrz the letters provide a more definite delineation.

It may be psychological but the explanation, that is 'low level 2' is more open to interpretation, it could mean a 2c or scraping a 2b. I know the delineation is also a moot point but it does seek to pin down a more precise description of attainment.

Also if teachers use these descriptions themselves, why not communicate them? They are also more simple to communicate than waiting until a face to face meeting (when would this happen in the case of SAT results been given out on the last day of term?). Parents can easily look definitions up, if professional terms are used. It is more difficult to do this with more woolly descriptors.

I believe an over emphasis on being accurate is equally meaningless to an outsider, as using professional, terms since it is equivalent to bamboozling them with the detail.

daftdame unfortunately there isn't a real cut of point when a child stops being a high 2c and scrapes a 2b it's very subjective and one person's 2c could be another's 2b ... It is down to professional judgement and you seem to think it is somehow set in stone.

mrz I absolutely do not think the sub levels are set in stone or objective. That is the whole reason why I want to know, if these sub levels are recorded for my child, what they have been recorded as.

If they could mislead a parent they could mislead anyone reading them.

Sorry speaking as a parent I'm afraid I can't relate to your desire so perhaps I should stop trying

mrz What desire?

To know what is recorded about my child? Thought that'd be quite simple. It is why people request their medical records etc. It is the desire behind the Data Protection Act and Freedom of Information.

mrz If it is any consolation in RL I have to manage this desire with fostering good relationships with my child's teachers. I tend to have a good idea when supporting him in homework, where he is ability wise anyway.

mrz However as a teacher yourself, it maybe useful for you to know that there are people who think like me. We might not be saying it but it will go through our minds.

Your desire to know a, b or whereas I don't care about 1, 2, 3

mrz I don't understand your question / comment.

As a teacher I manage to have a good relationship with parents by knowing their children well and not reducing them to numbers ...

mrz I am glad you do not reduce children to numbers. This probably shows in the relationships you have with the parents of the children you teach.

However if children are reduced to numbers in the records schools keep about them, parents have the right to see that information. They are picked up by teachers who do not know these particular children. School data can determine Government policy.

We were at a writing moderation meeting recently. Two pieces of work were moderated 'best fit' at 2a.

One child wrote in a mechanical, but accurate way; the other wrote creatively, less accurately, but using ambitious vocabulary. Both pieces of work were worlds apart.

The '2a' label isn't really giving much information in this instance.

it would be more useful for the teachers to have a dialogue with parents of child A to encourage vocabulary enhancement and more reading, whereas parents of child B need to concentrate on writing skills such as punctuation and spelling.

Thank you ipadquietly that is what I have been trying to explain but less eloquently.

ipad As a parent I would want that dialogue. However I would also want to reference it against the Level and sub level. This puts the information you are being told into context.

Why would you not communicate Level and sub-level. In addition communication of the ambiguity and moderation would be 'icing on the cake' for me as a parent. I would be more likely to trust somebody so open.

No one is saying they would not communicate the level