skipping a year - good idea or big mistake?

[yorkshirebound]

My children will move schools this summer when we move house. One of the schools is suggesting that my sept-born daughter goes into year 2 instead of into year 1. She is very bright although so far my impression is that although very able, curious and articulate she's not absolutely steaming ahead, but she spent a day w the year 1 class last week and the teachers said she fitted in well, was comfortably working at the top of their mid ability group despite understandable gaps in what she knows eg some maths techniques, her spelling rather more phonetic than you might expect for a year 1 child etc.

I am not worried about her ability to cope socially as she is very confident and makes friends easily, but I don't want to put her in a position where, because she is young for her year, she isn't really seen as very able and will just pass 11+ rather than excel etc. She does respond well to a challenge, and I guess if she stays in her calendar year she might lack the really sparky peer group which she has responded really well to at her current, selective school.

Any thoughts? Anyone with experience of this themselves/their children?

Don't do it, there is a child in my dd year who dI'd this now at secondary and emotionaly is really behind the other girls..my dd view btw..she often comes home and says this.
When all the girls come to stay here too it's very obvious the difference in emotional age. DOnt do it..

Is there such a massive difference in maturity between a child with a september birthday and a child with an August birthday that are born a few days apart?

I went to school with quite a few september/ october born girls who were put up a year. Most of them had no problems whatsoever. Prehaps the most annoying thing for them was that they could not learn to drive until they were 17 years old.

I think that putting children up a year is more common in the private sector than the state sector. Prehaps its worth asking the school if there are other children who have been put up a year.

I'm slightly puzzled about why it would matter hugely one way or another.

Emotional maturity? If she goes into the older class, she'll only be a month younger than the youngest children. If people accept that some August-born children are fine staying in their "correct" year, it doesn't seem a huge stretch to think that a particularly able September-born child might also do well with slightly older children.

Academic stretching? If she's significantly brighter than the others in the class then that isn't going to be fixed just by putting her in with older children. They know a bit more than she does at the moment, but she'll quickly hoover up any information she needs and will still be a quicker learner than they are. The change of year group might keep her occupied for a few months while she fills in the gaps, but then she will be in the same boat as before.

It isn't as if you were talking about putting an August-born child up into the next year where she would be with children between one and two years older than herself. Is it really a big deal?

My DH is bright (although not Einstein!) and his comp put him up a year (Nov birth). This would have been early 80s. He survived, but wouldn't allow it to happen to our DSs. The work wasn't a problem, but the emotional side was more of an issue. Don't do it!

I also agree with the poster who said that your DD may appear brighter than others because she is a Sept baby. My DS is Sept and when we moved schools (end Year 1), because of the way he was taught at the old school, they thought he was super bright....he's not, and am sure if he had beeen put up a year he would have struggled. As it is he is very happy chugging along at the top end of the class (got a Lambeth acheivement award for doing well in SATs last year...along with 3 others in the class).

My experience was slightly different (as I was a summer birthday), but put up a year early. Howeve, based on my experience I would say no - socially it is very difficult. She can be given more stretching work in Yr 1.

Skipping from reception to year two seems way too early. At that age, being September born can make a huge difference, and she hasn't had a chance to show that she will continue to work that far ahead of her age group. If they still think by the end of year one or two that she would benefit (and I mean benefit, rather than just being OK in the older class) from moving up, then maybe rethink it.

I skipped a year and it worked fine for me, but it was year four, after I switched from another school, and I was moved up after half a term: I went from being miles ahead of everyone in year four, and therefore completely underchallenged, to being comfortably at the top of year five and occasionally having to make a little bit of an effort.

I had no social issues, as I was tall and mature for my age (my birthday is January, so I was 5-17 months younger than the rest of the class - in fact possibly more than 17 months, as I think there was at least one girl who had stayed down a year). It was a private school with junior and senior sections, so there were no difficulties with going up to secondary with the rest of the year group. I did A-levels at 17, and took a year out before university.

Thanks again. I don't think it is just that she is sept born that she appears bright, but agree that helps for her year, and that others may well catch up etc. Still pondering!

I was put up a year (state school) and went straight from Y3 to Y5. It was not an experience I would recommend. However, most of the problem was because I was moved up in the same school, so all of the children who ignored me (which was all of them) did so because they knew I was supposed to be extra clever, their parents had obviously talked about me etc. If she's going into a new school anyway, that wouldn't be a problem. She'd just be a new girl and welcomed as such -- no need for anyone to know, really, for a year or so, by which time she'll already have made friends.
Leaving school, by the way, is great when you're a year young for the class. Gap years are very common.

Please don't do this.

I'm an August birthday and was a year ahead. My youngest sister was also a year ahead.

We both ended up having to take a year out of university as well as a gap year.

I was also a late bloomer and way, way behind my classmates in terms of development and socially it was a nightmare.

I'm always a bit suspicious of schools that want to move children up a year - having discovered that the school that moved me up a year wanted to even class numbers out and thought that I would be fine as I scored so high on their entry tests.

Fine to teach a child an individual subject out of year (maths whizz etc) but otherwise in year group in v important imo.

DS was offered to go into Y3 instead of Y2 when joining a private school. He was already working in the Y2 class at a state infant school (not a mixed Y1/2 class, just a couple of children moved from Y1 to 2) but it was a small infant school so wasn't that separate really.

I said no which meant we had to wait an extra year for him to be able to join the school in his true Y3 class. Academically he would have been in the top set in the year above for literacy and probably mid to lower set for numeracy and is a very mature boy, however I felt at some point he may start struggling either academically or emotionally but also physically. He is one of the smaller boys in his actual year group and the school does a lot of sports so I thought he may struggle with rugby and football etc.

Also I think a good school/teacher should be able to differenciate for able children without having to put them into a different year group. It is a lot of pressure on the child.

It may have been really good for him but I was worried about the future, he is not an autumn term baby and at one point he could be 13 in a class with 15 YOs which is a huge difference.

BTW - DS did not find it a problem going from YR to Y2 as was working at Y1 level when he started YR, he was one of the more sensible/mature ones even in the Y2 class and was in the top set for everything BUT we only allowed it as we knew it would only be for that year as it was a stand alone infant school. It is a massive decision for juniors/seniors IMO.

I was moved up a year from reception to yr 2, sept born, very bright (easy straight a's, oxbridge 1st etc etc etc). I think I always felt a little socially inept, but not massively so (and that's probably just me rather than the year group). If I'd stayed in the original year I think it more likely I would have gone off the rails due to boredom though. This was state school, back when they did move year groups.

I think I was an unusual case in that I was very bright though for all the bloody good it's done me self-taught reading fluently at 2.5 etc.

You know your own child, you say she is socially confident. If she's miserable as she is, then I say it would be worth considering. You get an extra year to bum around after uni as well!

In an ideal world in a good school with good teachers no child should be bored in their correct year group, regardless or state or private.

I understand why schools do it though, as often if the children are exceptionally bright they are way above the level of the others and also lack of resources can be an issue. DS was similar to you brain at that age so it was always going to be interesting to see what the school would do. Him moving up that year was good for him however this year I am not sure he has been challenged as much as he was last year which is a shame.

Thanks brain and melons. I was like you, brain, straight as, oxbridge first etc., but was not moved up when my parents were offered it as they worried about the social side. I was socially much less confident than my daughter, so I think at the time it was offered they might have been right, on the other hand one reason why the children didn't warm to me is I wasn't interested in the same things, so I might actually have got on better in the year up.

Anyway it did me no harm! I did v well in my own year at a v academic, selective girls school in London. I have not found a selective school in yorkshire until they get to 11+ so I think that is part of the difference, at my daughter's current selective school she is a good fit for reception, they have a broader ability range at any school we might send her to in yorkshire.

Am about to go off to talk to her current reception teacher. My preference right now is to move her to the new school in year 1 but be open to her moving up later depending on how she gets on, I don't think they can have seen enough of her in 1.5 days to know for sure what her fit is like.

So appreciate all the input, thanks everyone!

Mrsmelons - I think the resources point is a good one. My mum decided enough was enough when all I said I ever did was teach the other kids what to do, so the school obviously couldnt cope. That and I'd started beating up my brother at home as I was so frustrated.

Apparently - I don't remember any of it!

Good luck op. At least your school are considering it and you've got the choice. I don't think state schools do it these days.

Please remember that the age for leaving school/ remaining in education is rising to 18 (see thread in secondary education). In the past children who have gone through school ahead have been advised to take a gap year before uni as the universities are not keen to take child young (esp for medical type courses). I have been trying to find out what will happen once a child finishes sixth form but is still only 17, but no-one has been able to give me an answer.
I have a year 3 in a year 3/4 mixed class who is working with the year 4's. I have said I do not want him to move to a year 5 class in September as I am concerned that in the future he would have to spend 3 years at sixth form as he would be too young to leave.

I wonder if there's any decent research about the effect on children of this. I moved up a year from Reception to Yr 2 and was absolutely fine. No social problems, started university at 17. I'm November born. I was tested by an educational psychologist rather than just going on school assessment before I was moved up, it seems very weird for a school to suggest it just after seeing a child for a day.

There is some research, although predominantly from the US where it is a far more common phenomenon. I can't lay my hands on it right now (have paper copies) but I think the gist of it is that a skip can work very well if it is done with conviction.

To be honest, as your daughter would only be a month younger than the youngest child in her class, I can't see it being a huge problem, but that very much depends on the individual. How well does she get on in her current class?

You could also google Iowa Acceleration Scales - this is the checklist they use in the US to assess whether a child is suitable for skipping a year or not, and it includes social factors as well as academic.

"I have been trying to find out what will happen once a child finishes sixth form but is still only 17, but no-one has been able to give me an answer."

Well, the law is quite clear that the raising of the participation age is linked solely to date of birth and in no way to academic attainment. So (in due course) young people will be required to remain in education or training until their 18th birthday. There are a lot of options however, and it doesn't have to be full-time education so long as they're doing what is it, 20 hours of voluntary or paid employment alongside the education. There should be plenty of choices.

Is it possible the school have more spaces to fill in year two? Way too early to decide skipping a year is a good idea.

"There are a lot of options however, and it doesn't have to be full-time education so long as they're doing what is it, 20 hours of voluntary or paid employment alongside the education. There should be plenty of choices."

I think it unlikely that many employers are going to be willing to give a job with training to a 17 year old with A levels that is going off to university the next year.
Imagine the MacDonalds interview - Of course I have always wanted to do your management training, yes I do have 4 A*'s at A level and I volunteer at the hospital every week, but I have absolutely no intention of studying medicine next year, honestly!

"I have been trying to find out what will happen once a child finishes sixth form but is still only 17, but no-one has been able to give me an answer."

But there is already the same issue for those who have been skipped by multiple years and wish to leave school with A levels before they are 16. In practice there is no issue, provided that the student is still being educated - the current law states that the child must be receiving an appropriate education until they are 16. This education clearly does not have to be in a school but can be at home or at university or elsewhere. An issue would arise if e.g. the student wishes to take a gap year which cannot be argued to be educational but if such a student had high academic grades and a place for the following year at university I don't think this would be an issue in practice.

I passed the 11+ 'first time', i.e. in what would now be called year 5 (I don't know if they still do this?), so went to grammar school when I was 10 (October baby, so not too much younger than rest of year).

I was fine academically for a couple of years but then seemed to plateau. Whether this was just because I was a lazy little sod (probably) I don't know. I do know I'd always found everything at primary school really easy and didn't really know how to work, if you see what I mean.

I honestly don't know whether I would have been better served by staying another year at primary school; I probably would have been very bored. I certainly didn't fulfill my potential at grammar school, but I may not have done in any case.

Sorry, this doesn't help your decision at all, just my musings on the subject! I think, with your, and the school's, support, your daughter will do fine whatever your decision.

Sounds to me like school is finding it hard to meet her needs. Is it quite small classes/school? I think I'd allow her to try it (going up a yr, I mean), and see how it goes from there. You pay one less year's fees, bonus!!

I don't understand it!
If she is ''only'' working at 'top end of mid ability level for Y1 and has gaps in her knowledge, why on earth would they put her in Y2? Why would they not put the girls at the top end of the Y1 ability range up?
It sounds as though they are desperate for your money and either (1) are trying to flatter you or (2) don't have room for her in the Y1 class.Either way they have not got her best interests at heart and I would seriously question whether you want to send her there at all.