school swimming lesson safety

[billieanne]

I am a primary school teacher and recently qualified Asa level 2 swim coach and have a current NPLQ (National Pool Lifeguard Qualification). I am horrified that my ds primary school swimming lessons operate without a life guard and the children to instructor ratio is 30:1. The class teacher who is with the class has no swimming or life saving qualifications. The swim instructor does not hold a proper life saving qualification. Am I over reacting? I don't want to stop my son swimming because he will feel very sad that he cannot do as his classmates do. Do I let him join in or not?

The safety guidelines for teaching swimming is a maximum of 20 swimmers per instructor. What is the point of having lessons available if you cannot do it safely and properly? I don't know what to do? I have asked to arrange a chat with the head twice, over the last 2 weeks, but no one ever gets back to me. The class teacher cannot even answer my queries.

I had to do the swimming qualification before I could take my class swimming.
Having said that, it was a one day course and I wouldn't rate it much but never the less I couldn't go until I had done it.
There was not a life guard on duty but we did have 2 qualified swimming instructors, as well as two members of staff from our school. The children were split between the four of us. I am assuming that the swim instructor at the pool is qualified to teach swimming? How many other staff members go with the class?

The only other adult is the class teacher. The swimming instructor is from our local leisure centre. The teacher has no swimming of life guard qualifications or training. I am not sure how the swimming instruction takes place with one swimming instructor. The headteacher and teacher have not got back to me regarding my queries. The swimming takes place in the school's own pool, which is outdoor and heated, and only used in the summer. My child is in year 3, and is putting me under pressure because swimming has started this week and I did not send any swimming gear in for him. I still am not sure about the safety, and lack of reassurance/ communication from the school.

Mmm I would be worried too if there was only one instructor for 30 children. Groups of 5-7 can be pretty hard work in those situations as you probably know only too well yourself.
I would carry on trying to get a clearer picture of what happens from the school.

I'm generally a pretty relaxed parent and I wouldn't be at all happy about this. Write to the governors.

Say something bad happens - child bashes head and passes out in pool. Instructor leaps in and retrieves child. Teacher tells other kids to get out of pool and then bends down to pull out bashed child, instructor and teacher start working on bashed child - who's keeping the rest of the class safe and calling for help? You need to ask about their risk assessment of this activity because I would be very surprised if it's adequate.

I would have thought at the very least there should be two instructors, one for swimmers and one for non-swimmers otherwise I can't see much of a lesson for anyone! What are the rules for school swimming pools regarding life-guarding? Obviously at a municipal pool there are usually other staff around. I wouldn't be happy myself.

I too tend to be on the 'laid back' side, but I wouldn't be happy about a class full of 8 yr olds swimming without a lifeguard present.
If the HT won't respond then you have to take it to the Governors.

Laid back parent here too but i'm astounded to think that one instructor could possibly cope with 30 children!

I went to a swimming party with my DD once and we needed one adult for every 6 children in the pool.

Even if they were VERY well behaved, wouldn't they all be at differnt levels of ability?

In my area it is normal for children to be split into groups with only one group in the pool at any time so the instructor only working with 10 -15 children

When I took swimming at my school, I was told that legally there needed to be a life guard or other adult who was not teaching. I have only ever taught a small grp ( 10 at most) , would not fancy teaching 30!

Id go to the head- even if it isn't dangerous, they certainly wont learn anything.

Aren't there council guidelines / rules on this, or is it all down to schools?

I wouldn't let my child swim under these circumstances.

Ask about qualifications at your local leisure centre/pool ... my husband gave swimming lessons to the lifeguards at two pools close to my home ... none even had 25m certificates

Have you seen the school pool, if it's like the one at DFs school even infants can stand up in it, one swimming instructor and a parent is quite sufficient.
If a child was in trouble you could climb the side and pull them out very quickly.

What OP describes cannot be true. I don't believe it.

Sounds dangerous. Can you get some other parents on board and go and knock (literally if necessary) on the Head's door?

At our small, shallow school pool, in KS1 it's a max of 10 pupils in the pool at one time. In KS2 it's a max of 15. Teachers take the classes, but all have done swim training. In KS1 there are always at least 3 adults in the pool, the teacher instructs from the side. In KS2 it depends, there are always at least 2 adults other than the teacher, but they only get in the water if there are any non swimmers, which is rare as swimming is one thing the school is really good at teaching.

THis is wrong on so many levels.

Firstly, it's not safe. My dd can swim but I would not feel she was safe in that situation. Anything can happen when you have such a large group.

Secondly, there is no way that children can learn to swim in such a large group. I personally think that the way swimming is taught in most schools is a joke - you need small groups - and also swimming needs to be taught over two years at least - not just one term.

No adults go in our pool except in an evening with toddlers. I used to if it was very hot because I love swimming, but plenty of mums just lean over the side and don't get in even with babies if they have float seats.

Also I should add 90% of our YR are happy in water and by Y1 there is probably one or two non swimmers in the class.

So it's a joke to call them swimming lessons, swimming practice in the rain would be more accurate.

I teach PE and as part of our training we completed swimming teaching certification. I have taught swimming in at least 4 different schools and none would operate under the conditions you have described. All have had qualified lifeguards - whether that be provided by the local council pool - or the teachers holding lifeguarding qualifications at private school pools. For a class of 30 children I would expect at least 2 if not 3 teachers, so the children can be taught in ability groups in the relevant section of the pool. I can't really see what one teacher can achieve with a class of 30 presumably mixed ability children. Their focus would have to be with any non/weak swimmers so the rest would get little attention. I imagine that the swimming instructor will take the weaker swimmers and the class teacher will be left to give instructions to the more able. I think in state schools it is quite common practice for class teachers to 'instruct under supervision', which I never feel is ideal but seems to be acceptable. The lack of any lifeguard would be unacceptable to me.

Does the swimming instructor not have a teaching and lifeguarding qualification?

I used to teach swimming and lifesaving at my previous school. School pool, no deeper than 1.2m (most of ours were able to stand in the deep end). I have ASA Level 2, up-to-date NPLQ and quite a few years experience. Usually, I only had one additional adult with me, who was neither a qualified lifeguard nor a swimming instructor. We were always told we needed one qualified person,...and in this case, it was me. I had the LSA take a few children as per my direction and taught the remainder of the class. Not great, but it worked. I preferred to have more adults present.

My current school use a council-run pool. We've got three lifeguards on duty, one qualified swimming instructor, a parent helper and me. It works better this way, because I have non-swimmers...and not having to lifeguard at the same time means I'm able to be in the pool with my little ones. The instructor takes a group, I take my non-swimmers and the parent takes another group (she's been helping with swimming for years, so knows what she's doing).

When we take a class of 30 to the local council run pool we have a lifeguard provided by the pool and 4 instructors (3 members of school staff and an external instructor). Nobody, including the class teacher, is allowed poolside unless they have completed level 1 instructor training.

We would have to have two teachers (or helper ie TAs) in the pool with 30 children and one person not swimming on the side.

When I was in 6th year many years ago, we were allowed to swim lunchtimes on our own, provided we had one person 'spotting' and not swimming that had a life saving or 'gold' award. That was in the days when H&S was practically non existent! Shocked at your school.

Thanks for all the helpful information. I am a bit more relaxed about the situation as my ds took part yesterday in a class and enjoyed it. I am still not happy with the amount of children per one instructor and I will bring this up with the headteacher if he will ever bother to return my request to talk to him. As far as I am aware the swim instructor is ios trained/ not asa, with a teacher safety qualification which might not be current as in re-done in the past 2 years. I don't think the children will be able to learn very much in such a large group, it is more an organised fun session like aqua aerobics.

Are you sure they are all in the pool at the same time? At our school they are split into 3 groups.

YANBU one loving parent cannot be trusted to supervise their own 3 children with a life guard present,and yet a spotty teenager can have 30 children on his own.