All I really want from a primary school...

[MilestoneMum]

...is that when DD leaves she is good enough to be in the top stream for English and Maths at secondary school.

She is only 4 years old but I think she is bright, not G&T, but has no difficulties either.

But the school she has been allocated got an OFSTED rating of "Requires Improvement". Does that mean I will have to do tutoring or, dare I say it, Kumon, to ensure she is stretched enough?

She's not necessarily going to be among the most able children...

I am happy with the school otherwise - DD will start there in September. I think its pastoral care is better than nearby Outstanding rated schools and it's our nearest school so she'll get to know neighbours etc... I've considered moving her if a place becomes available but as I agree the social aspect of schooling is so important, I don't think I would actually go through with this. Some parents have removed their children from that school, and that worries me. It's not a particularly deprived area.

I was thinking of tutoring in year 5/6 and even then, by myself, DH or my Dsis. Before then, we read and do activities together (e.g. from magazines) which she loves and I can see it helps her learning.

I think it boils down to the fact I can't get over the OFSTED rating, despite reassurances from the school, current parents and MN on other threads.

When I buy a washing machine, I buy a good one, I can't afford an excellent one, but I certainly wouldn't want one which requires improvement. But with the school I've just got to go with what we've been given and I'm finding it difficult to get over that.

Milestone - seriously, I could have written your post a year ago, I really could. We were considering moving house to get into a different school (we live in a nice village, so don't really have any other options without travelling miles by car). (Likewise, the mums in the village are happy with the school).

In hindsight, I'm so glad I waited to see for myself how my DS got on with the school.

Maybe he'd be thriving even more in an 'outstanding' school, I don't know. All I know is that he is very happy, learning and developing at the rate of knots and seems so much more advanced and keen to learn. He loves school, happily skips in, sees his friends (from the village) regularly, gets mardy if he has to wait 5 minutes to do his 'homework' if I'm busy with something else. Academically, I think he's doing fine - he's jumping up reading levels and I can see how much he has learnt.

Senior school I will be a lot more critical. For now, I want him engaged, enthusiastic and excited.

A couple of questions ... have you spoken with the head and raised your concerns? Ask questions about what changes they're making to bring the Ofsted up (I don't think we challenge schools enough myself). How does he / she explain the rating?

How has the school done historically?

Historically, school is Good, so should just be a blip which has been explained. So am probably worrying over nothing. I would rather not take the chance with DD's education, but we have no choice.

Bearing in mind DD can't actually read or write yet, she may well not be academic, and I will respect that.

But I do want to give her expectations, and direction, and exposure to the good stuff, to give her a chance to fulfil her potential.

She's 4. She may not be naturally bright enough to be in the top set.

The joke when giving parent tours at my kids' primary is that the middle class parent will always ask 'how do you cater for the very able child?'.
And I can tell you something, they never turn out to be the parents of the very able child (who more often than not has English as an additional language).
Absolutely reasonable to have concerns, but there is absolutely no correlation between apparent 'brightness' at 4 and actual intelligence. This is why those private schools that select at 4 are so insane.

At the end of my son's first year of school the school was put into special measures - the only positive things the report said were that the children enjoyed coming and music teaching was generally good - it was that bad! I was a very naive parent before he started but that soon changed when I was handed that ofsted report at my first governors' meeting!

The school had a new head, mostly new staff and massive input from the LEA along with lots of support to improve. Fast forward to year six and he left with level 5 in all his SATs and left secondary school with 14 GCSEs. But more importantly he is a wonderful young man, who is polite, caring, confident and motivated - he's sorted out a university place, accommodation and all the other necessary stuff independently (we've offered support but he has chosen to take on the responsibility for it)

A bad ofsted to me, is sometimes better than a mediocre one - an OK school will be told to improve, a bad ofsted will trigger all sorts of help and support to the school and a much more rapid improvement in my experience.

Also a fundamental of the OFSTED system is that all schools need to be constantly improving. In fact in their reporting they have to say which areas they want to improve.

Fundamentally: how did you feel about the school when you looked around? There are schools I have looked at that could have all the OFSTED ratings they like, but I wouldn't send my children there. There are others which might seem less desirable on paper, but because of the care and enthusiasm, I would happily send my children to.

Don't forget that the Ofsted framework has recently changed, so that it is now much, much harder for schools to be 'good'. The school may actually have improved in many ways but still have been downgraded by Ofsted.

OP - I think you have been given a hard time for having a perfectly laudable ambition for your child. There's much guff here about how "what happens if the child just isn't top set material". Sorry, but I just don't believe that there's any reason why a child even of average intelligence shouldn't be working towards the top stream if they get the right support. It's not all about intelligence and innate ability or lack thereof.

I want the same for my own children, btw. They might not get there for all manner of reasons but I hope the school does its best to maximise the chances of it. Yes, yes, of course being happy and nurtured are incredibly important too. Not least because they will maximise the chances of them succeeding academically.

But enjoying school as the primary aim? No chance. They go to school to learn. I spent a couple of my primary years (thankfully no longer) at a school at which I was deliriously happy. Unfortunately I learnt stuff-all and then had a lot of catching up to do.

Guine - I'm not sure who your post is in response to, but I haven't seen anyone say that all they care about is that their child is happy.

I included how important it is to see my child engaged, happy and enthusiastic, but likewise, I also said how much my own child is progressing in a 'needs to improve' school.

If my child was happy, but not learning to read, write, maths and an understanding of the world, I would remove him and put him in another school.

I don't think Ofsted rating is the be all and end all.

I think that when the Op has a teenager in the house she will understand that academic aspiration is only a small part of what we want for our dcs.
I have bright daughters. Of course I want them to fulfill their potential but I prioritise mental and physical health far above academic achievements. You do NOT want to be the parent of the brilliant student who kills herself in her last term at Oxford. You do not want to be the parent of the woman with a first class degree and an eating disorder. Above all what we should be asking primary schools to do is to teach our children to esteem themselves. Yes actually I do just want my children to be happy in their own skins. Academic success will play a part in that but it's nowhere near the whole picture.

Sorry but thinking about tutoring in Y5 & 6 when your child hasn't even started primary school yet is just madness. I agree with what's been said already - all I want from a primary school is that my child is well cared for, comes out of Y6 as a decent human being, gets a decent basic academic education and enjoys school. One of our local primaries is Ofsted outstanding and gets fantastic SATs results - but the kids have constant revision and SATs practise and don't have as wide an experience. I'd rather my DCs have their music lessons, cookery lessons and whatnot than be forced to practise for SATs over and over.

Also, I know this has already been said but you simply can't tell what your child will be like later on. My DD was about the brightest kid in her Reception class but now, in Y5, she's perfectly average. She was an early starter but then everyone else caught up with her :)

I don't think it's madness.

There was something interesting in the paper the other day from the author Jaqueline Wilson. She said that when reading her fan mail spelling in English from kids living abroad (so writing English as a foreign language) was actually often better nowadays than that from home-grown kids. And that the standard had certainly gone down hill in the last ten years.

This is a concern. And whilst we want happy, well adjusted children, why shouldn't they be able to spell, write, do maths etc to the best of their abilities?

My dd is in yr 3 top stream at a "requires improvement" school. I have no doubt that the extra work I did with her at home in recep, years 1 and 2 did pay off when she did her sats in yr 2.

I did extra numeracy and literacy at home with her, particularly in the holidays. About an hour a day in holidays and maybe 1/2 hour on school days. I used easily available resources on the net/amazon and lots of games too like hangman, money games i.e. no tutor. If you do the work with her yourself she will be more engaged (than if you use a tutor) because she will be spending time with you.

OP, you're taking the "Requires Improvement" label way too seriously. Would you baulk just as much at "Satisfactory"? It's the same category.

As a governor at a requires improvement school I can't tell you how much work will be going on right now to rectify that. They absolutely have to, no choice in the matter!

I can also tell you that Ofsted has really raised the bar with the new framework and so there may not be much difference between a school judged Good a couple of years ago and one now judged Requires Improvement. Finally I would add an Ofsted inspector spends really a very short space of time at a school and reports what they see in that time - how accurate a picture that is is up for debate. (btw I totally agree with the RI judgement in the case of our school, in case that sounds like I don't! As a governor it has made my job much easier )

Totally agree though that there is so much more to primary education than just results or Ofsted reports. And of course not everyone can be in the top set

Of course they should all learn to spell, write, do maths, etc to the best of their abilities.
Children's abilities differ, though, and not all have the potentional to be in the top streams however hard they try.
Op seems to think it's just a matter of "stretching". Stretching is good, but will not make the child into one of the most able students if the raw material isn't there in the first place.

Of course I want DD to be well-rounded. But I want her to be above average to get on in life. Not necessarily Oxbridge standard. I bet everyone who has posted on this thread has a grade C or above in GCSE English, and that's all I want for DD too.

I don't think that is too pushy at all. Having said that, my DP were raised in a culture which the media always bangs on about valuing education very highly, so maybe that has rubbed off on me more than I realised.

I felt the same way about the Satisfactory label. How do I give my DD the Outstanding experience that the school cannot?

MrsTruper is right. Do as much as you can at home. One of my primary school teacher friends said to me "it's blindingly obvious which children are read to regularly at home, even before parents evening". I doubt very much your daughter won't achieve at least reasonably well, given the emphasis you place on education and how important it is to you.
See how you get on at the school. If you aren't happy about the progress your daughter is making, then switch schools.
BTW, without sounding rude, but did you look at different schools before applying? Is it that the grade has literally just gone down to 'needs to improve'?
I will also say again - book an appointment with the head. Voice your concerns and see how he / she responds with the plans in place. You might find that reassuring (or not, in which case that's another matter. I guess I'm saying what is written by Ofsted isn't the be all and end all. It's one factor amongst many when you assess a school).

My DS is in YR at a school where they have an outstanding ofsted rating and while I must admit that he is doing well academically (I feel odd even saying that about someone who is not quite 5, but there you are!) I feel that the children (and the parents for that matter) are put under unnecessary pressure in order to tick all the boxes and retain that rating. If I were given the choice between what we have and a school that was just good or even requiring improvement but that had a more nuturing environment then I know which one I would take.

freetrait, of course they should be able to work to the best of their abilities - nobody is saying otherwise. All I'm saying is that thinking about tutoring now is pointless as the situation could be vastly different in 6 years time.

As for wanting a school to ensure your child is above average, I don't think a school can turn a below average child into an above average one, can they? Surely all they can do is to ensure that each child reachers their potential?

I also think that over and beyond education attainment, when I see 'successful' people, I see confidence, a degree of risk taking, working hard ethic, perseverance and communication skills. I'm going off the point (quite!) a bit, but these are all skills I'm keen to encourage in my DSs. Educational 'success' opens doors I think, but I think in this day and age, these 'softer' skills are crucial.

While we all wish our children to be above the average it is just not always the case.

I have three nieces, all attended the same school until GCSE level. One stopped (she is just not academical material), one tried Six form and dropped out (she was lazy ) and the third did not only her A-level in AAAAs but also did an exam as a translator assistant (focus on written, not spoken language, course of 2 years) in the same time. She now juggles working and uni next to each other.

It is not necessarily what you want and how much to tutor, it is also a lot down to your child's abilities.

To get on in life you also need to be happy with what ever you do. Niece no. 2 (the one who stopped after GCSE) is now happy working in retail, loves working with people and selling. Yes, she will never be a manager but she loves what she does. Would everybody continued pushing her she would have managed a decent result in her coursework but she would have spent all day and night with books and be miserable.

FWIW, my 16YO DD was in the top groups in Y7 and 8, but she stopped reading for pleasure, and entered into a hectic timetable of extra-curricular activities and socialising. She does not have good self-discipline.

She is now doing minimal studying for her Scottish version of AS levels and her predicted grades are nothing special.

Success at primary school is not a reliable indicator of success in A levels - hard work and self-motivation are much more important. The current exams are not like the ones we sat, where it was sufficient to memorise a lot of details and trundle them out in the exams - though this might well be changing.

Encourage your DD to read once she's a bit older - in the meantime read to her and look at books. When she's a bit older restrict her time in front of screens. Later on at primary school she could do some of the national maths challenges - for which there are past papers. You could get her started on a musical instrument now - good for brain development.