Thoughts on Attendance Certificates etc for kids...

[expansivegirth]

Our school has just started giving out attendance prizes for children. This is an infants school. The children are 4, 5, 6. and 7. The attendance prizes - certificates or a pencil... - are given both to individuals and to classes.

I'd like to hear your thoughts. This policy is seriously arsing me off.

I feel it's deeply unfair to hold children accountable for the fact that heir parents choose not to bring them to school or struggle to get them to school on time...

I feel it fosters feelings of failure and resentment among the class. Thus those kids who care about attendance end up feeling cross with the children who, for whatever reason, don't turn up at all and bring down the class average.

Also the school does not discriminate between absences. A sick child, a child with feckless parents, a child on authorised holiday - they all count equally towards absence figures. A child who is ill ends up not getting a certificate - or worse - getting told off for low attendance - even though she's been throwing up all night.

These are VERY YOUNG KIDS. Anyone able to defend this policy please?

(Other than a Govian attempt to train obedient workers who are able to adjust early to unfair employment laws).

In every school I know of with these schemes the certificates/rewards are handed out in an assembly with names called out, etc. They are made a deal of - which is why individual children who know they have no chance of ever receiving them may feel they are letting their class down.

tethersend, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said it's not sensible to be concerned about children's educational achievement and the way it is stimulated . ARe you confusing me with another poster?

Basically people need to keep it in perspective. The fewer days of school missed the better so obviously hats off to people who go a whole year without missing a day as it's not easyy. My kids won't be winning the pencil or whatever it is.

any child that cries because they didn't win the attendance prize must be picking up on parent's stress over it.

I never win anything, i wouldn't win anythin if I were the only bloody entrant, and full attendance was one of the few things I had a chance of getting when I was at school. Not that I got it every year, far from it, I might have got it once or twice. But apparently that is not fair Prizes for being good at maths, art, music etc, prizes I would never have had a CHANCE of winning, that's different...

No one on here have yet to give me any arguement which convinces me how these schemes benefit children of primary school age.

These children are too young to be able to determine whether they go to school or now. They don't make the choice. So they are doing absolutely NOTHING that needs rewarding.

"any child that cries because they didn't win the attendance prize must be picking up on parent's stress over it. "

Nonsense! A child is capable of picking up on the fuss the schools make about them, and seeing their friends with rewards and certificates and know that they will never be able to achieve it.

If we really do have to insist on having such rewards maybe the certificates should be posted out straight to home and individual children not having their names called out and standing up in assembly?

I tell DS they're a load of old rubbish and not to be a tiny bit bothered about them.

He has a medical condition and has to be off for appointments. I think it is wrong to penalise him for this - but they do.

Jenny How disrespectful! Katz has already explained what her family are going through and the worry over her DH's medical condition and his upcoming heart operation. Of course she has far more things to worry about. However, having someone on here have a dig over and over, is hardly pleasant - even without the background it is upsetting to have someone keeping telling you that you are upsetting your children, which she is not by the way, let alone with other stuff going on!

It is NOT okay to penalise children for something they have no control over.

And it is not a good idea, imo, to reward children for something they have no control over.

And it is NEVER just 2 or 3 children in my school; always several.

This thread is going round in circles!!
Some schools have big prizes/ afternoon play/ trips out. Much more than a pencil with a rubber.
Those posters that talk about schools with sensible policies that acknowledge consultant appointments and such like as not to be penalised for seems way to go for me.

I have reported the comment - an unnecessary spiteful and unpleasant response to another poster.

No Jennie what upset me was your comment 'Find something sensible to worry about.' - you don't know me or know whats going on in my life (which actually is hugely stressful at the moment and i have a hell of a lot to worry). i'm not hugely worried about attendance certificates but thats what the thread is about, sorry I bothered now.

Katz - this thread shows that most people don't believe in penalising children. Ignore those that cannot express their views, even if they are opposite views, in a non aggressive way.

any child that cries because they didn't win the attendance prize must be picking up on parent's stress over it

Tell that to my dd who was pushed over and generally bullied because she lost her class the cup of the week many, many times. That's what class attendance awards do.

And add that to the fact that she knows she can never get one of these certificates. A piece of meaningless paper, possibly, but with a deeper meaning than you are managing to comprehend. Another reminder of being different, of not being as 'good' or as 'normal' as the others. We are not worrying about something needlessly or of no importance, in fact we are fighting discrimination that, as pps have pointed out, would never happen in the world of work.

Is it that difficult to understand?

Katz, I'm so sorry for all you are facing. Take no notice of ignorant posts.

Hulababy, I think that telling somebody who holds a different view from your own that they have made you cry is manipulative and passive aggressive. Yes, I disagree with Katz on this issue. That doesn't make me aggressive and it doesn't make me ignorant either.

And I'm not the kind of parent that keeps them off school for a sniffle either - my motto is unless there's blood, very recently broken bones, a temperature worthy of a GP appointment or D&V within the last 48 hours, they are going to school.

But I can't help DS2's asthma, which leaves him so weak that he can't get off the chair, meaning I have to arrange for someone else to take DS1 to school, and I can't help the fact that his medical appointments are during school time.

WTF else should I do?

I don't make a big deal of the certificates, but if his brother is bringing them home because he doesn't have those disabilities then he can see first hand that it is purely because if his disabilities that he is unable to get that certificate.

Which just shows that it is inherently unfair, as he IS being penalised for having disabilities.

So yes, that does upset him, even though I don't make a huge fuss over it.

I keep my thoughts on attendance certificates away from him - but on a thread like this, that he isn't going to read, I CAN point out that they are inherently unfair, penalise him because of his disabilities, and are very divisive.

They get a class award for the best attendance. His class never wins, and he has been picked on because his class KNOW it is him that has brought the class percentage down.

So it encourages bullying for something that he just cannot help or change.

Just unfair.

I disagree Jenny. Your comment was uncalled for, as pointed out not just by myself but also two other people. Unnecessary and uncalled for attack on a poster who has already posted on other worries happening.

But yes, you are fine to disagree with me on this. I am also allowed to disagree with your view on that point.

"tethersend, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said it's not sensible to be concerned about children's educational achievement and the way it is stimulated . ARe you confusing me with another poster?"

I must have, Jennie. I thought I was addressing a poster who knew why attendance awards were purported to be given.

Or did you think that schools just want better attendance to keep children off the streets?

The fact, or, if you like 'the bottom line' is that, statistically, children with poor attendance have lower educational achievement than those with higher attendance. My assertion is that, once those with medical conditions and disabilities are factored out, this difference in achievement is wholly due to parenting at primary school level, and that to focus on attendance is to focus on a symptom rather than the cause.

What do you think? Or do you perhaps have something more sensible to worry about?

Bullying is a separate issue! Sure the child that wins the best attendance could be bullied. Bullies don't consider what's a worthy reason to perpetrate a bit of bullying.

I don't force my children to go to school when they're sick btw. Just have a little bit of perspective, shrug over it, and your kids will too.

yup my son been called names as kid sin his class say they will never win due to ds3 attendance and since that will not improve ever then .I shall be demanding school rethink or i shall be yelling discrimination very loudly

jenny

but this sort of bullying has come because school putting pressure on dc knowing that they will use peer pressure to .bit like schools know reminding dc about rubbish goes in bin they will correct parents

Those who feel it is okay to have these awards...

WHY should we reward primary school aged children for their school attendance when it is something most primary school aged children have NO control over at all?

Or, as asked but no reply...

If they are so pointless and nothing for children to worry over why not scrap them altogether? What's the point of having a reward scheme if it is worthless and we are to tell various groups of children not to consider them as important?

Right, I know I said that I was stepping out of this one, but I just had one or two things to say:

tiggytape I fully get the disablist bit. As a disabled person, I probably get that more than most. Every establishment needs to make 'reasonable adjustments' for people with disabilities. That may mean 'discounting' consultants appointments. DD has to see consultants once per year and the dates of clinics are incredibly inflexible. Schools need to be flexible. But there are parents who 'milk it'. I know of one parent whose DC has to attend a clinic once per year (a very regular and flexible one). This is not for a disability (although she would say it was). She deliberately makes the appointment during the school day so she doesn't have to take her other children (she would have to during holidays).

As tethersend rightly says, her decision affects her DD's attendance. Not great, when the DD doesn't get the 'award'.

tiggytape having done extensive research as a disabled teacher and governor, I have discovered one important fact. Although disabled workers have a right to time off due to long term conditions (or those of their close associates) organisations can legally make the employee take this as unpaid. Workplaces are not always so sympathetic towards disabled people - I had one hell of a job just trying to keep a job that I had held for 7 years when I developed a disability.

Katz DD had heart surgery two years' ago (to the day). It happened to come at a time that I was diagnosed with a degenerative eye disorder, most of DH's team were made redundant and my DS' nursery closed down (mid year). I absolutely get what you are going through. It is bloody awful. The thing that kept me going was the thought that there would come a point in my life when things weren't completely shit any more. I lived like a zombie for four months.

I don't know what the 'ideal' school rewards system looks like. It has to be equitable and, from what I can see, many systems aren't.

The end.

Hulababy, are there any awards you feel are ok? Or are all awards wrong on the grounds that some children have no chance of winning them?

We should (imo) reward attendance whether or not it is driven by the children because some parents are too laissez-faire about missing school for no reason. It encourages a good general attitude. But children shouldn't cry because they don't win a pencil with a rubber on top. If that happens there are other issues going on. You don't have to take it personally. It's not an attack on your child. whydo you see it like that?

My children won't be winning these certificates either by the way.